First cycle from yet another gear newbie. (Help/Criticism/etc appreciated)

Justwannalift

Justwannalift

New member
Sup Y'all!

1st cycle... or should I say blast was good and bad.
Mental health + Family beef + life being life = didn't do the best I could. Basically, getting screwed is why I turned it into a "blast".

I didn't really blast though. 10 weeks @ 500mgs test, 1 week @ 400mgs, 2 weeks @ 300mgs + 30mgs VAR then life fucked me so 2 weeks of TRT 150mgs.

Long story short, I got shit in order and everything is good. Blood was good from before and I have a blood test requisition waiting from when I am ready to use.

Bought Test 400, NPP, and Dbol.
Even with everything messed up. I love this. Gear makes me want to eat perfect and makes my bad days at the gym a fun challenge v.s hating life when natty at the gym on bad days.

Going to be running 600mgs Test, 300mgs NPP, and 40mgs DBOL(6-7weeks). Going to run till blood test or Doc says I have a health concern or till I run out of NPP; I have 40mL @ 150mgs per mL/cc. So, 20 weeks if healthy
Then I'll actually cruise for a while.

I WILL be posting photos and blood tests here when I have more time.
Probably getting my next blood test in a month when I am 4 weeks to 6 weeks into Test/NPP. Going to wait 4 weeks for the Dbol to see how I feel/do on Test + 19nor.


First, I am dedicated to nutrition and time at the gym. This will be taken seriously at all times through the cycle.

Mid 30s. 6 ft tall. Pretty sure I'm mostly a Mesomorph in 'physical build' if that is relevant.
Active at the gym, on and off, for 12 years. (Like 4-9 months on, 6-18 months off. Basically, avoid the gym in the winter, went a lot in the summers.)

Updated version:
Cycle
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1 - 16(or 20)
- Test-E 500mg
• 250mg TWICE a week
- Aromasin 12.5mg
• As needed based off of 'sides' symptoms / or modified after week 4 blood test.

PCT - Currently going to likely use(pending blood test post last Test-E shot & further research.)
Weeks 6-4 prior to PCT
- HCG
• 1000iu 3x a week
Week 3-1 prior to PCT
- HCG
• 1000iu 2x a week

PCT Weeks 1-7 + 1 day(Amount I have)
- Nolvadex
• 20mg ED

I changed it up thanks to advice from forums, ppl on gear/previous users in RL, and further research + my goals for this cycle.

I am still trying to determine:
- as many pros and cons for lengths of cycles between 12-20 weeks.
- if I'll add DBOL at the end of my cycle(Pending results, experiences on Test-E only, further learning, and personal choices)
- PCT. This seems to be literally all over the place. Most agree it's necessary yet the possible ways to PCT suggested range quite a bit. I have my tentatively selected PCT choice listed above.

EDIT(Week 4):
Coming up on Week 5 on 500mg test a week. So far I have:
Physical sides.
-No acne,
-no change in nipple/chest look(gyno-wise), or sensitivity.

For mental sides.
- Sex drive is roughly the same, slightly more noticeable
- Easily annoyed. I am not down to take shit from people. I feel compelled to instantly respond to irritating interactions very firmly and straightforwardly. Usually, I would only be mildly irritated to hear/see some of these things then not care. Now, I almost can't stop myself. lol
- When nothing bad is happening, I feel way more positive, motivated. I am so optimistic and happy. Not sure if sides from the test or just from getting back to the gym seriously and doing better in most things.

Physical results (Post results soon. Stupid busy with everything + gym/nutrition dedication added)
- Burned most of my body fat(basically due to perfect nutrition and commitment to the gym)
- Lots of beginner gains(again) but better results when I was younger(possibly just real rigid dedication to workouts.)
- Strength is almost better than when I was at my best at the gym.
- Since Week 2, recovery is 10x better. The next day soreness went from almost painfully to just noticeable and feels kind of nice.
Pre-gear I would have to wait at least 2 full days before hitting the same muscle group. Now, I feel great after one day off. It feels like I could do muscle groups every other day.

All-in-all, I believe I am noticing effects from the cycle and it is making a difference already.

Sup Y'all!

First, I am dedicated to nutrition and time at the gym. This will be taken seriously at all times through the cycle.

Mid 30s. 6 ft tall. Pretty sure I'm mostly a Mesomorph in 'physical build' if that is relevant.
Active at the gym, on and off, for 12 years. (Like 4-9 months on, 6-18 months off. Basically, avoid the gym in the winter, went a lot in the summers.)

After a bunch of research, I am interested in trying out this cycle. I am happily looking for advice, critiques, and up for any questions.

So far, I have:
- Got a Natty blood test ~2 weeks ago (Waiting for my appt for results. Will post results.)
- Started Test-E this week. (Probably could have waited a bit longer in hindsight.)
- Bought what I'll need minus PCT stuff I am debating on and learning about. Still not sure which PCT path.
- Have a ND and want to do blood tests but have to figure out the best times to.
I was thinking about getting a blood test: post DBOL, after last Test shot, and post PCT(Maybe too much. Still debating.)

Cycle
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weeks 1 - 6
- Test-E 500mg
• 250mg TWICE a week
- DBOL
• 50mg ED
- Aromasin
• 25mg ED

Pretty happy with how Weeks 1-6 look. I could do 4 weeks of DBOL instead if trouble with sides. Not sure.

Thought-process:
- DBOL to maximize my time until Test kicks in.
- See how I handle orals (unnecessary for 1st cycle but confident the choice isn't terrible).
- Deal with tapering off strength during a decent amount of time on Test-only versus finishing DBOL into PCT and trying to maintain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Week 7 & 8
- Test-E 500mg
• 250 mg twice a week
- Aromasin
• 25mg EOD - OR - 12.5mg ED

Weeks 9 - 20
- 500mg Test-E
• 250 mg twice a week
- 25mg Aromasin
• 12.5 ED - OR - possibly only 'As needed'

Thought-process:
- Don't want to have to worry sides as much but also don't want to crash Estrogen. Will take the lesser AI path if things work out.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PCT (Still working on finalizing this)
At a minimum, I was 100% going to do:
Week 1 - 7 + 1 day (because I have 50tabs)
- Nolvadex 20mg ED

It keeps coming up that HCG should be considered in PCT for better possible recovery. I was thinking of using 'HCG PCT Option 1' because 20 weeks is slightly longer than the commonly suggested 1st-cycle of 12-15 weeks. Seems like possible overkill but I honestly have no idea. (PCTs from this thread: https://www.canadianbrawn.com/threads/post-cycle-therapy.3519/)

HCG PCT Option 1

Weeks 6-4 prior to PCT
- HCG
• 1000iu 3x a week
Week 3-1 prior to PCT
- HCG
• 1000iu 2x a week

PCT Weeks 1-7(+day)
- Nolvadex
• 20mg ED

HCG PCT Option 2

2 Weeks Prior PCT & after last Test shot
- HCG
• 1000 iu EOD
- Aromasin
• 25mg ED

PCT Weeks 1-7(+day)
- Nolvadex
• 20mg ED

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, I am completely open to criticism, advice, suggestions, and questions. I would appreciate help fine-tuning.

Thanks in advance to anyone that helps.
 
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Looks good for a first cycle, things change once that needle pierces the film of your butt cheek. Not everything goes as planned of course all of the time, but it’s good that you put such an organized plan together. I would personally go with PCT option 1 if it was me.

Dbol at the start was the same thing I did with my first real cycle, which was pretty close to the same cycle your doing now, and I quite enjoyed it. I used 150mg test prop M/W/F for a total of 450mg test/wk was the only difference. Very very typical beginner cycle.

Looks fine to me :)
 
Hold off on taking the aromasin till either you have bloods OR get sides. 25mg is a shit load, most start with 12.5mg. Starting aromasin on day 1 will likely put your estrogen in the toilet even with the dbol.

The 4 week mark is generally a good time to get bloods.

PCT option 1 is exactly what I used. It was awesome.
 
I would hold off on the AI too but looks like you put a lot of thought into this. Looks fine except I don't see the logic in adding another compound 'in case' you have estrogen sides.
Good for you putting the work in before hand - figuring things out and getting opinions. Two experienced guys already commented above me.
 
Looks like you have done some research. First thing that pops out to me is 25mg aromasin ed. Thats a boatload of anti estrogen. I would be highly surprised if you need anywhere near that.

Just for a baseline I would only use about 12.5mg twice a week on the cycle you listed. Possibly bump it to 12.5mg eod depending how I feel.

Also , I only run 25-30mg of dbol now. 50mg is alot imo, especially for first cycle
 
20 weeks is way too long for a first cycle.. First cycle should be 12 weeks.

You don't list the dose of dbol, unless I missed it? Either way, 6 weeks is much too long for dbol first cycle. I'd even go so far as to say dbol isn't even needed in a first cycle. If you insist upon it, 30-40mg ed for 4 weeks tops.

Honestly for a first cycle 400mg of test is more than enough. Add the dbol if you like, but I would't even bother for first cycle

Other questions were left un answerred as well. .Age? Experience?

Understand that your diet is even more important then your gear.

Don't be one of those guys who once they go on a cycle, they double their work load in the gym lol.. First cycle, your training should be the same as what worked best when you were not on gear.

Follow what ABmonkey said.. don't take your aromasin until you get blood work or sides. I'm going to guess you likely won't even need it esepcecially if you get rid of the dbol (or stick to 30-40mg for 4 weeks) and lower your test to 400mg.
 
I now see your dbol is 50mg ed... That's a lot in my opinion.. If I did 50mg ed my back and calves/shins would be so pumped and sore I would be physically unable to do much in the gym or even walk a block lol.

Dbol is one of those things that has potenial to make your cycle worse.. you can get nasty sides like I mentioned.. You might handle 50mg just fine, but for the first time I'd start much lower or not at all.
 
Looks pretty good. As others said hold off on the Aromasin until needed.
Or maybe drop it to 12.5mg EOD starting week 2 or 3... if you feel any doubt about your E2.

Dbol imo is fine at 50mg... only because if you do start getting sides.... lower back cramps, gyno, high BP ..etc... you can come off and its out of your system quick.

For me Dbol is the #1 thing that flares my gyno, if that starts... up the Aromasin to 12.5mg a day and start novla at 20-40mg a day.... don't wait if you start feeling a bump. raloxifene at 40 -60mg a day with the Aromasin will work also.
Letro should never be needed, if you start one of those two options right away.

Other then that you should be fine.
Enjoy.
 
Research PCT now; as it’s been said that aromasin is pretty overkill.. I’d save that til you know it’s needed; all in all well more thought out than my last 3 cycles so kudos to you
 
"DBOL to maximize my time until Test kicks in."

Not looking for a long debate (easy enough to find some on here) but mentioning because you are new. Test doesn't take that long to "kick in", you'll be peaking at 3x plus natty levels after your second shot and at "steady" Plasma levels after around 3 weeks. If 3x natty ain't doing it for ya somethings wrong with the other parts of your program. 3x natty is "kicked in" in my view. You may not notice substantially size increase for a month or so but remember that as far as actual lean tissue gains remember you are only gaining grams per day, it'll take a while to show. If you want to go all marshmallow man with water retention that's up to you, un healthy and not my style except in rare circumstances.

Still feel like you can't wait? Why not frontload the T? Nice and simple, especially a large potential time savings if you do in fact need an AI. Much easier to dial dosing and effects in when using only one anabolic.

For example what happens if you need an AI while running the Dbol? Take a guess at the dosage you need right? Let's say you nail it, hopefully with bloodwork to back it up. YAY!
But now what? what will you do when you come off the Dbol? Another guess? More Bloods?

My 2cc's but KISS applies here, especially the first time around.
 
Looks good! Personally if I could re-do my first cycle, I'd have done 400mg/test-e/wk instead of 500. Had some estro sides. The DBOL is your call, but in my opinion, you will gain a ton off test alone and don't need to "kickstart". You have your whole life to play around with different compounds, but test will usually be the base, so it's wise to learn how your body tolerates test alone.

And def go with HCG in your PCT. BUT prepare for estro sides during/after PCT.... acne,moods etc.

And agree with everyone in reducing your asin dosage. Dose as needed. You can't plan out that dose until you know how you react.

Get bloodwork mid cycle for sure as well to see where your e2 is at.

And keep a log!! You'll be happy you did.
 
Despite @gondar1 basically being spot on right, can’t hurt to see how your body reacts to it; everybody had to try everything for the first time at some point!

this isn’t peer pressure to run dbol, but hey test dbol was my first as well as many others; the quick extra weight was kinda fun. Now with the still pretty limited, but experienced info I have; I’d use dbol completely differently than a kick starter now.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'll add edits to my OP to not overload the comments too much.
I plan on sharing updates here.

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gondar1 said:
"DBOL to maximize my time until Test kicks in."

Not looking for a long debate (easy enough to find some on here) but mentioning because you are new. Test doesn't take that long to "kick in", you'll be peaking at ....
Click to expand...

I wasn't sure how effective test alone would be. I got turned off to the standard 1st cycle suggestion the more I say all this "... you'll be lucky to keep gains after PCT even doing well at the gym.." and other comments like that. Add in the compounds effect everyone differently and I thought "What the hell! Why not?"
May as well and try to optimize my 1st cycle a bit more. Test an oral. Regiment the living shit out of my routine and nutrition and see what comes of it.

I convinced myself that as long as I research and I am smart with it, any worst-case scenarios I'd encounter would likely be more genetic-based versus me doing something wrong.

I am looking into how low mg ppl run DBOL+Test and have great results, on average. As well as, trying to gauge how I could possibly optimize my cycle some more.
Hopefully. I don't have garbage genetics to ruin all my plans. 😄

SHREDZEPPELIN said:
Looks good! Personally if I could re-do my first cycle, I'd have done 400mg/test-e/wk instead of 500. Had some estro sides. The DBOL is your call, but in my opinion, ....
Click to expand...
I see the Asin advice loud and clear. Definitely modifying that.

Currently, going over my Test + DBOL amounts. Definitely interested to see how I experience orals.

Seems like I can stop DBOL for a few days if sides become an issue.
So, that has me thinking I'll be good with 50mgs and can just stop for a bit OR up the AI for a bit.
OTFJOEY said:
Despite @gondar1 basically being spot on right, can’t hurt to see how your body reacts to it; everybody had to try everything for the first time at some point!

this isn’t peer pressure to run dbol, but hey test dbol was my first as well as many others; the quick extra weight was kinda fun. Now with the still pretty limited, but experienced info I have; I’d use dbol completely differently than a kick starter now.
Click to expand...

Peer pressure not taken. I appreciate the alt-perspectives.

As for the ".. the quick extra weight was kinda fun.." NGL, this has got me being like "... maybe I'll just give it a go." 😆

-------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the input, bros Cumminstech2 , ABMonkey , Goldenrod , Cheapshot , TinyTim79 , animal-inside

AI's have been dropped lower for sure. Looking into other info
 
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Pretty much just an echo of everyone else. I'd cut that cycle to 16 weeks. Run it, see how you respond and adjust for next time. Don't use the AI unless necessary. I've never used asin but I've always seen it used at 12.5mg acouple times a week.

As for the dbol. I'd skip it. Especially at that dose. You'll be adding an additional 350mg of anabolics to your 500mg of test. Youd for sure see results from 25mg, mg for mg dbol is decent. I ran 40mg ed and went full waterballoon. Sure the strength is awesome but you're going to make great progress on test if your diet and training Is as dialed in as you say. Also you want to hammer your test with a very high aromatizer when you have no idea how you'll respond to just the test. As mentioned above, the moon face and bp increases are definitely not something to be overlooked.

If you truly want an oral, run it at the end of the cycle to push through plateaus. You gradually up calories and intensity through a bulk. MG should be no different. Increase mg throughout the cycle to break platueas don't drop them. You'll go from a heightened level of anabolism, recovery, and strength for 4ish weeks then the rest of the cycle will feel lackluster in comparison. So with that I'd again suggest a different oral such as tbol or var. Ascetically I prefer tbol but for strength and recovery I prefer var. Another benefit Is neither aromatize so you won't throw yourself any curve balls to deal with.

Also you won't lose everything post cycle. Who ever is saying that and recommending additional compounds is a dumbass. They're saying increase your number of anabolics to prevent loss post pct? Well think of it this way, the more suppressive compounds you run, the hard to recover it will be. Along with that you'll grow used to shit tons of additional strength, endurance, recovery in the gym. Then you'll pct and you'll feel like you went from driving a Ferrari to a clapped out civic.
 
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Justwannalift said:
Thanks for the replies. I'll add edits to my OP to not overload the comments too much.
I plan on sharing updates here.

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I wasn't sure how effective test alone would be. I got turned off to the standard 1st cycle suggestion the more I say all this "... you'll be lucky to keep gains after PCT even doing well at the gym.." and other comments like that.
Add in the compounds effect everyone differently and I thought "What the hell! Why not? Try to optimize and prep for a bit more. Test an oral. Regiment the living shit out of my routine and nutrition and see what comes of it.
I convinced myself that as long as I research, am smart with it any worse case scenarios I'd encounter would likely be more genetic-based that any thing I was doing horribly wrong.

I am looking into how low ppl run DBOL + Test and have great outcomes on average and trying to gauge how I could possibly optimize my cycle some more.
Hopefully. I don't have garbage genetics to ruin all my plans. 😄


I see the Asin advice loud and clear. Definitely modifying that.

Currently, going over my Test + DBOL amounts. Seeing what others have tried and experienced to try and loosely gauge if there maybe something a be more optimal. I guess it will be hard to tell until I try it myself. Definitely interested to see how I experience orals though.
Possibly drop test 100mgs and maybe drop DBOL by a bit. DBOL seems like a pretty hard split for opinions from all the sources I go though.

When I think 25mgs DBOL, everywhere is like "50mg. Don't waste you cycle or the oral because 25mgs is low.
When I am like "Alright. Let's give 50mgs a go." I see a lot of things saying "Avoid the oral" or just "Use less at first."

Seems like I can stop DBOL for a few days if sides become an issue. So, that has me thinking I'll be good with 50mgs and can just stop for a bit or up the AI for a bit.


No peer-pressure taken. I appreciate the alt perspectives.

".. the quick extra weight was kinda fun.." NGL, this has got me being like "... maybe I'll just give it a go." 😆

-------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the input, bros Cumminstech2 , ABMonkey , Goldenrod , Cheapshot , TinyTim79 , animal-inside
AI's have been dropped lower for sure. Looking into other info
Click to expand...
It will be super effective provided you eat enough and train hard.

I'd also skip the dbol, or throw it in at the middle/end.
 
@Justwannalift
You scored big here bro, this thread is gold. Really good, well rounded opinions presented. And your input has been mature too.
A couple quick things add into the jumble-
Good call on the Aromasin, I hope you are lucky enough to never have to use AI's.
One more Dbol consideration - Dbol is a Testosterone derivative. By the time it reaches your Androgen Receptor it's pretty much the same thing as your Test-E is but with the added bonus of the Androgenic Side Effects it brings along for free. It's MUCH more stressful on your body - Liver, Estrogen shit etc. Basically same shit in a different package that is harder for your body to unpack which comes at a cost. The quick gainz made with it are a result of these sides and disappear quickly upon cessation, be mentally ready for that when it happens.

Re: Whoever is saying - "... you'll be lucky to keep gains after PCT even doing well at the gym.." and other comments like that.

Fuck that guy. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

If what you have said in your intro post and here -"First. I am dedicated to nutrition and time at the gym. This will be taken seriously at all times through the cycle. " is true then just keep up the intensity and dedication to all aspects, Learning, training, eating, recuperating AFTER the cycle and loss of gains can be very minimal.
Go the unfortunately all too common route of half assing it unless juicing and you'll get back what you put in, a half assed result that you put your body under significant stress for without apparently respecting it enough to maintain the results.

Fuck that guy.

Don't be that guy.
 
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I don't know your age but if I could do it all again, I would find the money and hire a coach in my early 20's when I first hit a wall. Forums are great and some guys are free to dispense the advice but many of the coaches who competed have forgot more than most know about nutrition and biomechanics aren't going to give their secrets away for free.
Given enough time, you will figure out who to listen to and the guy who wrote before this post is one, read @gondar1 's posts.

Otherwise, you end up being the yoyo guys at the gym - grow and are very obviously on gear and then either disappear or shrink and you can tell they are off. Don't take my comments wrong - some guys say you can keep everything and there is no difference when you come off but I disagree. How can you continue to be the same when your testosterone is back to normal parameters? I suspect when the coaches say this - they refer to keeping the intensity up and continuing to eat and don't get discourages when the gains start to stall.
Don't fall into the group who can't train without being on.

@gondar1 said it well above regarding losing gains. You will lose some weight when you finish a cycle but if you continue to work on progressive overload (with de-load phases) and eat the same, you should keep most of your muscle.

Anyway - I don't want to get off track here - nothing wrong with your cycle other than a few tweaks but if you can afford it and are relatively new to lifting hire a coach. I don't mean the guys who are hanging around the gym. You don't have to meet the person anymore with technology - do your research as guys will be all too happy to take your money and call themselves 'coaches' when they don't have a clue what they are talking about and are just drug pushers.

Best of luck.
 
Edited OP with info changes.
I'm mid-30s, 6ft tall, pretty Mesomorph-like build, in & out of gym + active lifestyle for ~12 years now.

- AI's lowered. (This was a preference of mine. Pretty happy to hear others say to take less)
- Interested in lowering DBOL. Not sure where I am with removing it. I want to experience superphysiological. I am interested in breaking beyond my genetic max for a while(Nothing too crazy. Like ~10lbs over or so].
- Heavily considering 400mg Test-E instead of 500mg.

I am seeing a Naturalpath (ND) doc today. They know I am taking gear and good to help me stay as healthy as I can. I guess I'll see what's up after the apt.
 
Glad to hear dude. Though I'm not sure what you mean by superphysiological? You're gunna be on a half gram of test. You're gunna know you're on it around the 5th week mark. Hell you'll be wanting to fuck constantly by week 2.

Still if you choose to run dbol. Save it for the end, though practically all weight gained by dbol is temporary just so you're aware. That's why dry orals much more preferable for me. Every pound gained for the most part is actual mass.

And please..pleaseee. just cut the somatotypes out. They've been completely debunked. I've been an echo, endo, and meso. It's all body composition and nothing more. I hate when people say "I can't grow because I'm an ectomorph" no you can't grow because you're too pussy to stuff your face.
 
Justwannalift said:
Edited OP with info changes.
I'm mid-30s, 6ft tall, pretty Mesomorph-like build, in & out of gym + active lifestyle for ~12 years now.

- AI's lowered. (This was a preference of mine. Pretty happy to hear others say to take less)
- Interested in lowering DBOL. Not sure where I am with removing it. I want to experience superphysiological. I am interested in breaking beyond my genetic max for a while(Nothing too crazy. Like ~10lbs over or so].
- Heavily considering 400mg Test-E instead of 500mg.

I am seeing a Naturalpath (ND) doc today. They know I am taking gear and good to help me stay as healthy as I can. I guess I'll see what's up after the apt.
Click to expand...

I think we all understand the desire to push beyond genetic limitations. I think the general message everyone is trying to send is that with the test alone should yield the results you’re looking for, especially if 10lbs is your goal.

More than likely additional weight gained due to dbol would mostly be from increased water retention.

Long story short, as long as everything else is in order as you say, keep it simple, stay on track and you should put on solid maintainable mass.

Good luck!
 
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