Fertility on TRT or Super Long Cycles

[OTFJOEY]

all that’s an added bonus
I hear you on that one. I’ve been taking prescribed cialis 2.5mg almost daily. The sensitivity and finishing was addictive. And with that too studies claim it increases sperm count

Cialis is just a godsend lol. No wonder the pharmacies want fucking 80$ a box for the good stuff (4 pills)

 

[OTFJOEY]

all that’s an added bonus
I hear you on that one. I’ve been taking prescribed cialis 2.5mg almost daily. The sensitivity and finishing was addictive. And with that too studies claim it increases sperm count

Plus the nuts you bust are twice as big! So double the chances, right?

 

[OmegaBravo7]

lol the sensation is like nothing I’ve experienced before. I’ve taken the ugl stuff too but this real pharmaceutical cialis is fucking insane. With ugl I’d take 10-20mg and with the real stuff 2.5-5mg is better and I get less sides, and repeated nut busting in one go

For the real shit I get them around $150 for a box of cialis 28 tabs, 5mg

What I love most about it is taking it daily is actually healthy and beneficial

 

[OTFJOEY]

I got a box of 20’s stashed away and have never used the pharma stuff. So I can only imagine how much better it is taking 10 mg vs 10 mg generic. I ordered some generic pharma cialis from PG as well. Just wanted to see how they’d compare to Lilly (when I do bust them open)

 

[OmegaBravo7]

I got a box of 20’s stashed away and have never used the pharma stuff. So I can only imagine how much better it is taking 10 mg vs 10 mg generic. I ordered some generic pharma cialis from PG as well. Just wanted to see how they’d compare to Lilly (when I do bust them open)

Definitely try a lower dose first. You get any sides with ugl? My face would bloat badly, severe back aches, even burst a vessel in my eye at one point. With real pharma I get close to no sides and with a much lower dose it was more potent - in a good way

 

[OTFJOEY]

Definitely try a lower dose first. You get any sides with ugl? My face would bloat badly, severe back aches, even burst a vessel in my eye at one point. With real pharma I get close to no sides and with a much lower dose it was more potent - in a good way

I have only had a hot, flushed face from UGL, nothing more. It does way more good than harm for me

 

[OTFJOEY]

Definitely try a lower dose first. You get any sides with ugl? My face would bloat badly, severe back aches, even burst a vessel in my eye at one point. With real pharma I get close to no sides and with a much lower dose it was more potent - in a good way

Btw thanks for this heads up to dose it so small

 

[DeviousD]

No, if I were on Testosterone then it wouldn’t have come as a surprise and I wouldn’t be visiting a fertility clinic; I’d already know what the issue was. I held off TRT or any cycle until the wife got pregnant.

Okay great! There was talk prior about trt, I was unsure so I had to ask.

Honestly there is a myriad of possible issues....I sure hope that it is the dutasteride. I know nothing about the dutasteride as i've never taken it or done any research on it. Its great that you realized that because the little research that I just did says it will definitely affect your sperm count negatively.

Any chance the fertility doc checked you FSH & LH?

Personally I don't think the HCG will help to increase your sperm count....I know everyone is different but I tried it and it didn't work for me. The thing is HCG only mimics LH, it does nothing to stimulate the production of LH or better yet FSH which is actually what is necessary spermatogenesis.
Clomid actually stimulates the pituitary to produce and release LH & FSH, its the FSH that is essential for sperm production. Most people take too much clomid, there is no need to take anymore than 25mg/day. I was prescribed 25mg/day of clomid by our fertility doctor to increase my sperm count, thats actually the first and only thing he did. ( This was after I had already tried HCG while under the care of my GP )

 

[OTFJOEY]

Okay great! There was talk prior about trt, I was unsure so I had to ask.

Honestly there is a myriad of possible issues....I sure hope that it is the dutasteride. I know nothing about the dutasteride as i've never taken it or done any research on it. Its great that you realized that because the little research that I just did says it will definitely affect your sperm count negatively.

Any chance the fertility doc checked you FSH & LH?

Personally I don't think the HCG will help to increase your sperm count....I know everyone is different but I tried it and it didn't work for me. The thing is HCG only mimics LH, it does nothing to stimulate the production of LH or better yet FSH which is actually what is necessary spermatogenesis.
Clomid actually stimulates the pituitary to produce and release LH & FSH, its the FSH that is essential for sperm production. Most people take too much clomid, there is no need to take anymore than 25mg/day. I was prescribed 25mg/day of clomid by our fertility doctor to increase my sperm count, thats actually the first and only thing he did. ( This was after I had already tried HCG while under the care of my GP )

Interesting , thanks for posting this

 

[OmegaBravo7]

Okay great! There was talk prior about trt, I was unsure so I had to ask.

Honestly there is a myriad of possible issues....I sure hope that it is the dutasteride. I know nothing about the dutasteride as i've never taken it or done any research on it. Its great that you realized that because the little research that I just did says it will definitely affect your sperm count negatively.

Any chance the fertility doc checked you FSH & LH?

Personally I don't think the HCG will help to increase your sperm count....I know everyone is different but I tried it and it didn't work for me. The thing is HCG only mimics LH, it does nothing to stimulate the production of LH or better yet FSH which is actually what is necessary spermatogenesis.
Clomid actually stimulates the pituitary to produce and release LH & FSH, its the FSH that is essential for sperm production. Most people take too much clomid, there is no need to take anymore than 25mg/day. I was prescribed 25mg/day of clomid by our fertility doctor to increase my sperm count, thats actually the first and only thing he did. ( This was after I had already tried HCG while under the care of my GP )

I almost want to say he did test for LH and FSH because he’s supposedly one of the top fertility docs around here. What was the reason you went to fertility doc if you don’t mind me asking.

I was wondering thinking of adding clomid too but wasn’t sure if I should because I hate the sides associated with it. Good to know on the dose, I’ll give it a go.

How long did you use HCH and at what dose?

How long did were you on clomid for until it kicked things back to normal for you?

Btw, for what it’s worth, he said my “sperm concentration” was low. I’m not certain if he meant speem quantity in general or what, or if it’s the same

 

[DeviousD]

I almost want to say he did test for LH and FSH because he’s supposedly one of the top fertility docs around here. What was the reason you went to fertility doc if you don’t mind me asking.

I was wondering thinking of adding clomid too but wasn’t sure if I should because I hate the sides associated with it. Good to know on the dose, I’ll give it a go.

How long did you use HCH and at what dose?

How long did were you on clomid for until it kicked things back to normal for you?

Btw, for what it’s worth, he said my “sperm concentration” was low. I’m not certain if he meant sperm quantity in general or what, or if it’s the same

It is always best to ask your doctor for a copy of the test results, then you know the real results, not just their "opinion" results. Test result ranges vary too much and you could be technically "in range" but there will still be issues and generally in Canada if you're in range they will not treat you at all. You have every right to copies of the results and they cannot withhold them from you, they may charge a small fee for photocopying but that is it.
I was there because we were having trouble conceiving our second child. My wife was getting checked out as well and she checked out with everything fine as she was ovulating normally. I had then told the fertility doc that I was on TRT and he said oh you have to stop taking that and take this and then prescribed me the clomid at 25mg/day. ( I had already stopped though because I had already received my semen analysis results back and that was done by my GP )

I was still on TRT and trying the HCG thing which didn't work at all, my sperm count was actually lower after six months of HCG at 500iu every other day....I know this because I had a semen analysis before starting the HCG and then had another one exactly six months later as I was on the same HCG protocol for the whole six months.
I got off TRT right away as soon as that result came back...
I can't give you exact data for my own results on clomid because I did HMG for a couple weeks prior to the clomid. We were successful her third cycle after me coming off and using the HMG and the clomid. I had stayed using the 25mg/day clomid right up until we knew she was pregnant.
It takes almost three months for sperm to mature so you would see your best results after that time. I kept doing it also because I needed the testosterone boost from it as well.
Clomid is very strong and people take waaay too much, even in PCT, no wonder people get serious sides when they're taking upwards of 100mg or more a day of it. There is data that supports treatment from 12.5mg/day to 50mg/day.

 

[OTFJOEY]

It is always best to ask your doctor for a copy of the test results, then you know the real results, not just their "opinion" results. Test result ranges vary too much and you could be technically "in range" but there will still be issues and generally in Canada if you're in range they will not treat you at all. You have every right to copies of the results and they cannot withhold them from you, they may charge a small fee for photocopying but that is it.
I was there because we were having trouble conceiving our second child. My wife was getting checked out as well and she checked out with everything fine as she was ovulating normally. I had then told the fertility doc that I was on TRT and he said oh you have to stop taking that and take this and then prescribed me the clomid at 25mg/day. ( I had already stopped though because I had already received my semen analysis results back and that was done by my GP )

I was still on TRT and trying the HCG thing which didn't work at all, my sperm count was actually lower after six months of HCG at 500iu every other day....I know this because I had a semen analysis before starting the HCG and then had another one exactly six months later as I was on the same HCG protocol for the whole six months.
I got off TRT right away as soon as that result came back...
I can't give you exact data for my own results on clomid because I did HMG for a couple weeks prior to the clomid. We were successful her third cycle after me coming off and using the HMG and the clomid. I had stayed using the 25mg/day clomid right up until we knew she was pregnant.
It takes almost three months for sperm to mature so you would see your best results after that time. I kept doing it also because I needed the testosterone boost from it as well.
Clomid is very strong and people take waaay too much, even in PCT, no wonder people get serious sides when they're taking upwards of 100mg or more a day of it. There is data that supports treatment from 12.5mg/day to 50mg/day.

I’ve only recently heard about HMG; congrats on getting some swimmers rockin and congrats on getting the wife knocked up!

 

[OmegaBravo7]

It is always best to ask your doctor for a copy of the test results, then you know the real results, not just their "opinion" results. Test result ranges vary too much and you could be technically "in range" but there will still be issues and generally in Canada if you're in range they will not treat you at all. You have every right to copies of the results and they cannot withhold them from you, they may charge a small fee for photocopying but that is it.
I was there because we were having trouble conceiving our second child. My wife was getting checked out as well and she checked out with everything fine as she was ovulating normally. I had then told the fertility doc that I was on TRT and he said oh you have to stop taking that and take this and then prescribed me the clomid at 25mg/day. ( I had already stopped though because I had already received my semen analysis results back and that was done by my GP )

I was still on TRT and trying the HCG thing which didn't work at all, my sperm count was actually lower after six months of HCG at 500iu every other day....I know this because I had a semen analysis before starting the HCG and then had another one exactly six months later as I was on the same HCG protocol for the whole six months.
I got off TRT right away as soon as that result came back...
I can't give you exact data for my own results on clomid because I did HMG for a couple weeks prior to the clomid. We were successful her third cycle after me coming off and using the HMG and the clomid. I had stayed using the 25mg/day clomid right up until we knew she was pregnant.
It takes almost three months for sperm to mature so you would see your best results after that time. I kept doing it also because I needed the testosterone boost from it as well.
Clomid is very strong and people take waaay too much, even in PCT, no wonder people get serious sides when they're taking upwards of 100mg or more a day of it. There is data that supports treatment from 12.5mg/day to 50mg/day.

We have similar circumstances. Congrats on the 2nd child. We’re blessed with 2 little ones, my youngest is 3. I can’t stand being in a home without a toddler in diapers crawling around, wife feels the same way. If we’re fortunate enough the aim is for 7 kids or so.
I agree we should always have copies of our test results.
What you said about your results with hcg is crazy. What was your HMG protocol. I always thought hcg was more effective than hmg in increasing sperm volume. I never really considered hmg because my test levels are considered within normal range according to the doc.

 

[DeviousD]

We have similar circumstances. Congrats on the 2nd child. We’re blessed with 2 little ones, my youngest is 3. I can’t stand being in a home without a toddler in diapers crawling around, wife feels the same way. If we’re fortunate enough the aim is for 7 kids or so.
I agree we should always have copies of our test results.
What you said about your results with hcg is crazy. What was your HMG protocol. I always thought hcg was more effective than hmg in increasing sperm volume. I never really considered hmg because my test levels are considered within normal range according to the doc.

Holy shit! Seven?? LOL I want more kids too but we're too old now to safely keep trying plus I can't afford to have anymore anyways.

I only had 8 vials of HMG that were 75mg/vial and they were just a generic that I got from The Powder Guy. So after 12 days of stopping the TRT I did 37.5mg ED of HMG for 16 days as well as I started the 25mg/day of the clomid.

 

[OmegaBravo7]

My test results are below:



Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml ....... (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)
LH 4.24 ...... (normal is 1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.90 ...... (normal is 1.5-12.4)


Testosterone levels came back at a mere 15.3nmol/L which is equivelant to 441ng/dL. Despite what the doctor says, to me that's pretty fucking low. That explains why these past 8 weeks or so I've had loss of libido and have been taking Cialis for the most part. I'm also thinking my loss of energy is also due to my test levels.

My nuts ultrasound result was that one of my testicles was on the very low end of what's considered normal size. It was measured at 12.7cc

My intended goal is to self medicate in order to conceive within a few weeks. Once conception is successful, I need to get on TRT whilst taking HCG. And when we're ready to conceive again, I'll come off TRT + become fertile and conceive, and back on TRT.

I'm planning on taking HCG and Clomid together as outlined below. Critique is welcome, this is my first go at it.


HCG
Week 1 - 1,500iu/eod
Week 2 - 1,000iu/eod

Clomid
Week 1 - 50mg/day
Week 2 - 25mg/day

End of week 2 will take more tests and compare results with baseline

 

[Cheapshot]

My test results are below:



Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml ....... (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)
LH 4.24 ...... (normal is 1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.90 ...... (normal is 1.5-12.4)


Testosterone levels came back at a mere 15.3nmol/L which is equivelant to 441ng/dL. Despite what the doctor says, to me that's pretty fucking low. That explains why these past 8 weeks or so I've had loss of libido and have been taking Cialis for the most part. I'm also thinking my loss of energy is also due to my test levels.

My nuts ultrasound result was that one of my testicles was on the very low end of what's considered normal size. It was measured at 12.7cc

My intended goal is to self medicate in order to conceive within a few weeks. Once conception is successful, I need to get on TRT whilst taking HCG. And when we're ready to conceive again, I'll come off TRT + become fertile and conceive, and back on TRT.

I'm planning on taking HCG and Clomid together as outlined below. Critique is welcome, this is my first go at it.

Week 1 Week 2
HCG 1,500iu/eod 1,000iu/eod
Clomid 50mg/day 25mg/day

End of week 2 will take more tests and compare results with baseline

Thats the way I like using hcg. 1500iu eod or e3d. The low dose hcg approach did not work for me.

 

[DeviousD]

My test results are below:



Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml ....... (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)
LH 4.24 ...... (normal is 1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.90 ...... (normal is 1.5-12.4)


Testosterone levels came back at a mere 15.3nmol/L which is equivelant to 441ng/dL. Despite what the doctor says, to me that's pretty fucking low. That explains why these past 8 weeks or so I've had loss of libido and have been taking Cialis for the most part. I'm also thinking my loss of energy is also due to my test levels.

My nuts ultrasound result was that one of my testicles was on the very low end of what's considered normal size. It was measured at 12.7cc

My intended goal is to self medicate in order to conceive within a few weeks. Once conception is successful, I need to get on TRT whilst taking HCG. And when we're ready to conceive again, I'll come off TRT + become fertile and conceive, and back on TRT.

I'm planning on taking HCG and Clomid together as outlined below. Critique is welcome, this is my first go at it.

Week 1 Week 2
HCG 1,500iu/eod 1,000iu/eod
Clomid 50mg/day 25mg/day

End of week 2 will take more tests and compare results with baseline

There is no need to take both, you're not trying to restart your HTPA. Your HTPA is working, you just need to stimulate and wait. You are not going to increase your sperm count and motility in a few weeks, it takes 74 days for human sperm to mature.

Back to the compounds, if you take that much clomid and that much HCG you're going to aromatize like crazy and spike your E2, its going to do more harm to you than good. You should really choose one or the other. Your numbers aren't that bad, really, they aren't.

I don't want to sound like a dick or make it sound like I think I know everything but I think you would benefit from a little more solid research...I have a few studies that involve the use of clomid and HCG for fertility, I will see if I can find them for you.

I really want to help you because I know the feeling of trying month in and month out and being unsuccessful....its fun trying but the disappointment is real when it continues to be unsuccessful. I also think that it is essential for your wife to track her ovulation as well, this will give you the best shot, no pun intended lol, to actually conceive even if your numbers are a little low.

 

[OmegaBravo7]

I was worried about rising e2 levels as well, I have an ai on hand. Wife’s cycles are normal as is her ovulating. That 74 day mark is confusing because there seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence showing it can take a significantly lower amount of time to get the numbers up again and conceive within 2-3 weeks with an aggressive approach, hence my combo lol. There hasn’t been any studies on the length of time it can take for a male to become fertile using clomid

 

[Jackcity506]

Good luck bro. Hoping the best for you man. Cant wait to come back and read that you were successful!

 

[DeviousD]

I was worried about rising e2 levels as well, I have an ai on hand. Wife’s cycles are normal as is her ovulating. That 74 day mark is confusing because there seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence showing it can take a significantly lower amount of time to get the numbers up again and conceive within 2-3 weeks with an aggressive approach, hence my combo lol. There hasn’t been any studies on the length of time it can take for a male to become fertile using clomid

Okay, great, you're well aware of the accelerated rate of aromatization. Even though the clomid is a SERM, it will only block the E2 from the receptors.
My wife's cycles were normal as well and she was ovulating but it was off about 3 days of what is considered normal....we only found this out because she actually used test strips every day....plus pretty easy to tell when she is actually juicy and ripe lol.
I did find two other sources that cited the total spermatogenesis maturation process at 64 days, not the originally cited 74.

Here is some research that may be helpful if you wish.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18175667/

This one here cites some combination therapy like you were describing with your approach, mind you that is for restarting and restoring function after being totally shut down.

Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use

The use of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for hypogonadism continues to rise, particularly in younger men who may wish to remain fertile. Concurrently, awareness of a more pervasive use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) within the general ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This one here compares the efficacy of clomid only treatment, HCG only treatment, & clomid & HCG together treatment.

Clomiphene citrate and human chorionic gonadotropin are both effective in restoring testosterone in hypogonadism: a short-course randomized study - PubMed

All three treatments were equally effective in restoring testosterone levels. Single-agent CC is simple, cheap and may be used as treatment for hypogonadism when maintenance of fertility is desired. This approach seems to be as effective as either hCG alone or a combination of hCG and CC.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Any approach you choose to do, I really wish you the best luck!