Fertility on TRT or Super Long Cycles

Okay, great, you're well aware of the accelerated rate of aromatization. Even though the clomid is a SERM, it will only block the E2 from the receptors.
My wife's cycles were normal as well and she was ovulating but it was off about 3 days of what is considered normal....we only found this out because she actually used test strips every day....plus pretty easy to tell when she is actually juicy and ripe lol.
I did find two other sources that cited the total spermatogenesis maturation process at 64 days, not the originally cited 74.

Here is some research that may be helpful if you wish.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18175667/

This one here cites some combination therapy like you were describing with your approach, mind you that is for restarting and restoring function after being totally shut down.

This one here compares the efficacy of clomid only treatment, HCG only treatment, & clomid & HCG together treatment.

Any approach you choose to do, I really wish you the best luck!
Thanks brother. I spent the better half of Sunday reading up on these and I’ve come across these studies except the 2nd one.
 
My test results are below:



Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml ....... (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)

LH 4.24 ...... (normal is 1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.90 ...... (normal is 1.5-12.4)


Testosterone levels came back at a mere 15.3nmol/L which is equivelant to 441ng/dL. Despite what the doctor says, to me that's pretty fucking low. That explains why these past 8 weeks or so I've had loss of libido and have been taking Cialis for the most part. I'm also thinking my loss of energy is also due to my test levels.

My nuts ultrasound result was that one of my testicles was on the very low end of what's considered normal size. It was measured at 12.7cc

My intended goal is to self medicate in order to conceive within a few weeks. Once conception is successful, I need to get on TRT whilst taking HCG. And when we're ready to conceive again, I'll come off TRT + become fertile and conceive, and back on TRT.

I'm planning on taking HCG and Clomid together as outlined below. Critique is welcome, this is my first go at it.


HCG
Week 1 - 1,500iu/eod
Week 2 - 1,000iu/eod

Clomid
Week 1 - 50mg/day
Week 2 - 25mg/day

End of week 2 will take more tests and compare results with baseline

Update:

I did some blood work yesterday to see where things are at the moment.

Started Clomid 50mg/day 1 month ago (Oct 1st)
Started HGC 1,500iu/eod 2 wks ago (Oct 19th)

Blood work done Nov 2nd (3 days after HCG injection)

Testosterone came back 42.8 nmol/L (or 1,233 ng/dL).
Previous test levels were at 15.3nmol/L (or 441ng/dL). Nearly trippled.


E2 also up, it's at 448pmol/L.
Previous level was around 85-90pmol/L


One thing that stays consistent on all my tests is my fucking HbA1C, always showing at 6.0%. That's alarming

Next week I'll take a semen analysis to test where I am with sperm concentration before making any changes to my doses.
 
Update:

I did some blood work yesterday to see where things are at the moment.

Started Clomid 50mg/day 1 month ago (Oct 1st)
Started HGC 1,500iu/eod 2 wks ago (Oct 19th)

Blood work done Nov 2nd (3 days after HCG injection)

Testosterone came back 42.8 nmol/L (or 1,233 ng/dL).
Previous test levels were at 15.3nmol/L (or 441ng/dL). Nearly trippled.


E2 also up, it's at 448pmol/L.
Previous level was around 85-90pmol/L


One thing that stays consistent on all my tests is my fucking HbA1C, always showing at 6.0%. That's alarming

Next week I'll take a semen analysis to test where I am with sperm concentration before making any changes to my doses.
How are you feeling both mentally and physically? You're obviously handling the clomid well? And the high E2, feeling any effects from that?
 
How are you feeling both mentally and physically? You're obviously handling the clomid well? And the high E2, feeling any effects from that?

No man, nothing at all. No side effects at all from Clomid or high E2 levels. I was expecting a noticeable increase in motivation and energy from high test levels but nothing to rave about so far. Maybe I’m comparing it to being on a Test cycle and shouldn’t be. Libido and erections are great, no more need for Cialis.

When someone stop their hcg/clomid protocol, when do their test levels take a dip, and how by how much?
 
No man, nothing at all. No side effects at all from Clomid or high E2 levels. I was expecting a noticeable increase in motivation and energy from high test levels but nothing to rave about so far. Maybe I’m comparing it to being on a Test cycle and shouldn’t be. Libido and erections are great, no more need for Cialis.

When someone stop their hcg/clomid protocol, when do their test levels take a dip, and how by how much?
That's awesome! Great news!

I don't really know, I can't help with that question at all because I did clomid right until the wife was pregnant and then went right back on TRT. I've never done that much HCG before so also hard to judge that...I was only up to 500ui EOD and then went to the HMG and then clomid and then back to TRT.

Really curious to hear how your results go on your analysis, hoping you have more positive news there too!
 
hmg/hcg are pretty common therapies to keep sperm production up or bring back up post cycle.

Honestly, the infertility is exaggerated. I’ve been “off” a total of 3 times in 10 years, other times just dip down to 250/week. Last time I was fully off was 2015. My first child was conceived in 2017 on a heavy test blast with no ancillaries to speak of. My second child was conceived in 2020 while in the last week of a heavy 20 week blast including tren, anadrol, MENT (which supposedly makes you infertile on its own, that’s why it was invented).

Luck of the draw sometimes; some people have an easier time with fertility than others.

If your goal is to get pregnant (didn’t read the whole thread, short on time), I’d come off everything, use hcg/hmg, tamox, and go to town. Can you get pregnant on cycle? For sure. Is it easier to get pregnant off? For sure.
 
I agree, doctors are in the dark in Canada when it comes to this topic which is why forums and posts like this can prove to be a life altering pool and source of knowledge. Thanks for sharing your own exxperience, it's what I was looking for. This week I will request a fertility and/or sperm test (not sure if they are the same?). yeh Sorbate's suggestion is superb and I'll be making some calls tomorrow to these centres to look into it. It's a great way to reserve when the future is unknown and it only costs about $400 a year for them to store. What I really want to know is if the sperm they freeze/store is that useable for multiple conceptions or just one cconception.

Is there anything to take to help get the sperm into normal shape again?




Almost 40, and have done many cycles. My careless cycles were the ones I did from my teen yrs and up to a decade ago. These days my cycles are more quality-based but lesser. I've never done any pct (and I don't don't condone not doing PCT). We currently have 2 kids, 3 and 5. If not AAS, I need to get on TRT sooner than later. I wasn't competing but I was modelling in NYC in my 20s and not for the money either pay was shitty, moreso for vanity and the unlimited supply of pussy - also because I engaged in a lot of fighting, extremely athletic, and gave me an edge when competing in sports. All these stupid decisions of the past are the reasons why I pay a heavy toll today with all sorts of ongoing stubborn pains and aches



Duly noted bud, must approach this with delicate care



Thanks for sharing your experience bro and you raise a very interesting angle.




It's possible man. My wife had 2 miscarriages as well. I hope the sperm/fertility test can show the condition or what shape sperm is in - normal or what.

I agree, but keep in mind.. do you expect your doctor to support your long term fertility while you use/abuse drugs that are known to decresed/end fertility along with other serious side effects?

Even if doctors knew how to help you, should they? I don't know the anseer to this, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Many of us feel like drug addicts shouldn't get welfare/social assitance without passing a drug test each time. Should we get the same sort of treatment?


On the fertitliy issue.. I was never a huge dose guy or long term guy.. longest wss like 4 months on.. and heaviest cycle was strsight 600mg prop I think.. Around 32 I tried ot have kids.. wow.. not only did I not realize at the time I had already killed my natrual test production, its was friggin impossible for me to conceive a kid even with being off completely for a couple years.. The ONLY way I could have my 2 kids was by using clomid.

I also did PCT nearly every single cycle.
 
I agree, but keep in mind.. do you expect your doctor to support your long term fertility while you use/abuse drugs that are known to decresed/end fertility along with other serious side effects?
I didn’t abuse any drug, I was on a prescribed hair loss medication. But my answer would be that it depends. Getting on trt is not an abuse of drugs
On the fertitliy issue.. I was never a huge dose guy or long term guy.. longest wss like 4 months on.. and heaviest cycle was strsight 600mg prop I think.. Around 32 I tried ot have kids.. wow.. not only did I not realize at the time I had already killed my natrual test production, its was friggin impossible for me to conceive a kid even with being off completely for a couple years.. The ONLY way I could have my 2 kids was by using clomid. I also did PCT nearly every single cycle.

Yeh I’m convinced that it’s varies from individual to individual in terms of getting knocked on or post cycle. How long did you stay on clomid and what were your doses
 
Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml ....... (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)

UPDATE

I just got my Semen Analysis back. The results are below. You can compare to previous results above prior to starting Clomid & HCG.
It's been 5 weeks since Clomid and 3 weeks since HCG...

Sperm Concentration: 23 million/ml ....(normal range is >15mill/ml). ---> 200% increase
Sperm Total Count: 50.6 million/ml ....(normal range is >39mill/ml). ---> 150% increase
Total Motile Sperm: 24.3 million ...(normal is >40mill). ---> 120% Increase

Those #'s are pretty damn significant. The only thing that is lagging is the Total Motile #, it needs to be above 40. I suspect it needs more time, though it did jump by 120% already.

Started Clomid 50mg/day on Oct 1st
Started HCG 1,500iu/eod on Oct. 19th
Last Semen Analaysis: Nov 8th
 
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I didn’t abuse any drug, I was on a prescribed hair loss medication. But my answer would be that it depends. Getting on trt is not an abuse of drugs


Yeh I’m convinced that it’s varies from individual to individual in terms of getting knocked on or post cycle. How long did you stay on clomid and what were your doses


I never said TRT was abusing drugs.

I was reffering to people like me who used steriods and now have to lean on the medical system to support me due to the effects of steriods. I'm talking about the guys who did the damage and now need treatments.

I followed the old protocol of 300/150/50.. I thin it was 300 for 1-2 days, then 150 for 5 and 50 for another 20 days..somethig like that. Can't recall .
 
I was on a heavy cycle when I know Ed my wife up with our second child. My recommendation is to take 500 of HCG twice a week… it worked for me. Mind you I did this from my cycle on with pct.
 
For what it's worth, it worked. Got the wife pregnant first week of February, she's now 21 weeks pregnant. A big Thanks to everyone that has chimed in. Now I can finally hop on TRT and long cycles because I feel like shit and weak like shit lol. And when it's time to have another kid, 4 months in advance I'll know what to do
 
For what it's worth, it worked. Got the wife pregnant first week of February, she's now 21 weeks pregnant. A big Thanks to everyone that has chimed in. Now I can finally hop on TRT and long cycles because I feel like shit and weak like shit lol. And when it's time to have another kid, 4 months in advance I'll know what to do
FUCK YEAH BUDDY
 
For what it's worth, it worked. Got the wife pregnant first week of February, she's now 21 weeks pregnant. A big Thanks to everyone that has chimed in. Now I can finally hop on TRT and long cycles because I feel like shit and weak like shit lol. And when it's time to have another kid, 4 months in advance I'll know what to do
Congrats brother
 
I’m looking for some solid and reliable advice from you level headed bros with experience in this regard.

I’ll make it real short. I want to get on TRT and stay on.

I’m also going to be doing 6-8 month cycles consisting of high dose of test amongst some other orals and the occasional tren, and then drop back down to my trt dose.

My questions are as follows:

- Will HCG keep me fertile during my TRT?

- Does the effects of HCG decrease with the increase of test dose, or is the HCG completely effective despite weekly test (or tren) dose?

- Does HCG keep you fertile in the case one wants to conceive OR does it simply just increase the chances?
Dont forget to plot how long you gonna wait. Always consider the tail end of having kids. Do you want them in the house after 50? Stats say that kids are staying home ridden more and more. I only ask because I hear people say "well 37 or 40 isn't THAT old to have kids...work etc etc". 37 means you have a child until you're 57 or 59. 40 year old parent means child in home while you're 60+. Not the way to enjoy your still good years IMO.

I was getting pushed to have a 21 plus year old adult in my house when I was happy as hell to get out when i was19? Don't think so. Oh the last one tried to stay but eff that! I just bought a house close to the University of Western Ontario so I'm was making rent off three rooms while he' was rent free in the basement. He had to pay for damage which thankfully was just a carpet.
 
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For what it's worth, it worked. Got the wife pregnant first week of February, she's now 21 weeks pregnant. A big Thanks to everyone that has chimed in. Now I can finally hop on TRT and long cycles because I feel like shit and weak like shit lol. And when it's time to have another kid, 4 months in advance I'll know what to do
Thank you so much for logging this stuff here. It is literally what is giving me hope. What was your first sperm count before clomid?
 
Thank you so much for logging this stuff here. It is literally what is giving me hope. What was your first sperm count before clomid?

Sperm Count Prior to Clomid & HCG:

Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml…… (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)
 
Sperm Count Prior to Clomid & HCG:

Sperm Concentration: 8mil/ml…… (normal is >15mil/ml)
Sperm Total Count: 22.4mil/ejac ...... (normal is >39mil/ejac)
Total Motile Sperm: 11.4mil/ml ...... (normail is >40mil/ml)
Oh okay, my sperm count is below 1 mill but my motile is 38 lol. They didn't even calculate my total. I guess I'm not cycling for some time... I was thinking about doing just a test and primo cycle if I can get my sperm back to a healthy level.

I am just waiting the two weeks for my prescription test e to leave my system before starting Clomid and HCG. I have both on hand already so I thought I'd use that before going with HMG. Will be talking to my doctor soon about his recommended course of action.
 
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