Some TRT Experiments and Learnings

Adex does work immediately. If I’m high on estrogen and holding a lot of water, if I taje it before bed I pee all night.
I find if I use it sparingly it’s better. If I was trying to keep my estrogen at a perfect level aromasin would be the way I go. Adex is in and out quick, aromasin lasts longer, but takes longer to build.
I also get acne from Adex because of the quick changes, and yes, I’ll get wood the next morning as well.

Don’t use sust, fuck you’ll be all over the map.

And primo rocks. Too bad you can’t go mct oil or I’d sell you some at a discount. I’ve bern tossing around the idea of wether I’m gojng to onky run test from now on or not. Maybe it’s a good thing I don’t sell you my primo so if I change my mind, lol.
 
Sorbate said:
Adex does work immediately. If I’m high on estrogen and holding a lot of water, if I taje it before bed I pee all night.
I find if I use it sparingly it’s better. If I was trying to keep my estrogen at a perfect level aromasin would be the way I go. Adex is in and out quick, aromasin lasts longer, but takes longer to build.
I also get acne from Adex because of the quick changes, and yes, I’ll get wood the next morning as well.

Don’t use sust, fuck you’ll be all over the map.

And primo rocks. Too bad you can’t go mct oil or I’d sell you some at a discount. I’ve bern tossing around the idea of wether I’m gojng to onky run test from now on or not. Maybe it’s a good thing I don’t sell you my primo so if I change my mind, lol.
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Everything you say about the AIs align with my limited ai experience. (I miss my youth when I didn’t have to use any)

I really do like 200mg test only buuut I have to try primo once. Yeah me and MCT are not friends but appreciate the sentiment my friend.

Thx!


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When I was younger I wasn't on board with AI's but having reads lots about how bad higher estrogen can be for males I changed my thinking. The thing that resonated with me the most is the really bad negatives to higher estrogen aren't noticeable so just because you feel your estrogen isn't high without BW you're playing Russian roulette.
 
flexappeal said:
When I was younger I wasn't on board with AI's but having reads lots about how bad higher estrogen can be for males I changed my thinking. The thing that resonated with me the most is the really bad negatives to higher estrogen aren't noticeable so just because you feel your estrogen isn't high without BW you're playing Russian roulette.
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Agree. No matter my compounds; TRT + no ai, Test 250 + ai, or Test + primo, one principle I have is to not let me E2 get above 30 pg/ml. At my age i see no pros only cons for estrogen being high. From what i read the risks of an ai for short periods and low dosage are lower than the risk of high estrogen.

Resent personal experience suggest that over 4-5 weeks arimidex and aromasin will likely get you to the same point but arrimidex maybe better for emergence lowering estrogen and aromasin better for stable estrogen.
 
Quick Update on Adex experiment...Got Blood Work back

  • Above i talked about how i felt taking just .25mg of adex once per week and today got the blood work which showed that it did indeed drop my E2 lower than i like.
  • .25 mg per week dropped my E2 by 50%...very powerful little compound.
  • My E2 prior to adex was 28 pg/ml with 110mg test per week, after 7 weeks of a tinnnnny bit of adex it was 15 pg/ml. That is a 13 point drop. Not insignificant.
  • I also believe that if i had kept taking it, my E2 would have dropped even lower.
  • The BW was 4 days after the adex was taken.
Other interesting thing was that in the BW it showed my free Test was 752 pmol. (Dr is ok with 500-700). On 90/100/100mg i have always been very stable for years in the mid 500s. So why has it all of a sudden shot up to 752? the only thing different is that i have been pinning twice per week for about 6 months. Could this have an impact?? Any thoughts? i know free test varies but that is a big variance. (yes i was consistent on the days i got the BW done). On a good note Dr was perfectly fine with the test levels as the rest of my BW was in order.

Clear for a year to run my next two experiments...yeah
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
Quick Update on Adex experiment...Got Blood Work back

  • Above i talked about how i felt taking just .25mg of adex once per week and today got the blood work which showed that it did indeed drop my E2 lower than i like.
  • .25 mg per week dropped my E2 by 50%...very powerful little compound.
  • My E2 prior to adex was 28 pg/ml with 110mg test per week, after 7 weeks of a tinnnnny bit of adex it was 15 pg/ml. That is a 13 point drop. Not insignificant.
  • I also believe that if i had kept taking it, my E2 would have dropped even lower.
  • The BW was 4 days after the adex was taken.
Other interesting thing was that in the BW it showed my free Test was 752 pmol. (Dr is ok with 500-700). On 90/100/100mg i have always been very stable for years in the mid 500s. So why has it all of a sudden shot up to 752? the only thing different is that i have been pinning twice per week for about 6 months. Could this have an impact?? Any thoughts? i know free test varies but that is a big variance. (yes i was consistent on the days i got the BW done). On a good note Dr was perfectly fine with the test levels as the rest of my BW was in order.

Clear for a year to run my next two experiments...yeah
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Less test was converted to estrogen so you had higher free test?
 
flexappeal said:
When I was younger I wasn't on board with AI's but having reads lots about how bad higher estrogen can be for males I changed my thinking. The thing that resonated with me the most is the really bad negatives to higher estrogen aren't noticeable so just because you feel your estrogen isn't high without BW you're playing Russian roulette.
Click to expand...

Do you have any links?
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
Quick Update on Adex experiment...Got Blood Work back

  • Above i talked about how i felt taking just .25mg of adex once per week and today got the blood work which showed that it did indeed drop my E2 lower than i like.
  • .25 mg per week dropped my E2 by 50%...very powerful little compound.
  • My E2 prior to adex was 28 pg/ml with 110mg test per week, after 7 weeks of a tinnnnny bit of adex it was 15 pg/ml. That is a 13 point drop. Not insignificant.
  • I also believe that if i had kept taking it, my E2 would have dropped even lower.
  • The BW was 4 days after the adex was taken.
Other interesting thing was that in the BW it showed my free Test was 752 pmol. (Dr is ok with 500-700). On 90/100/100mg i have always been very stable for years in the mid 500s. So why has it all of a sudden shot up to 752? the only thing different is that i have been pinning twice per week for about 6 months. Could this have an impact?? Any thoughts? i know free test varies but that is a big variance. (yes i was consistent on the days i got the BW done). On a good note Dr was perfectly fine with the test levels as the rest of my BW was in order.

Clear for a year to run my next two experiments...yeah
Click to expand...

Real quick here - Finding solid info on anything about Estrogen when taken from a bodybuilders perspective has frustrated me for years. Research is heavily slanted towards female's and the info for men is scant in comparison and usually contains confounding factors that make it hard to get a read on what the real life implications of the results are. (for me anyways).

Free test is super hard to accurately measure, I have heard or read that there can be significant differences from the same sample using the same machine during the same session. I can't provide a source for that info because I can't remember so take it for what it's worth.

Adex (and all AI's?) raise test so it makes at least some sense that your free test might rise too.

And this is an insightful thought from Sorb for sure -
Sorbate said:
Less test was converted to estrogen so you had higher free test?
Click to expand...

That is truly a tiny dose of Adex you are talking about I know you are taking an almost bare minimum of T but your reaction to the Adex sure rings of "Adex over-responder syndrome" , off the top of my head I think that about 10-15% or so of male users fall into that category. Might be worth looking into, be prepared to dig hard if you do go looking, I don't recall seeing many spoonfed type answers that were more than anecdotal.
 
Sorbate said:
Less test was converted to estrogen so you had higher free test?
Click to expand...

Thanks, definitely a valid theory. I took the Adex the same time as my pin so for the 48 hour spike of testosterone I had Arimidex also working hard to prevent any conversion.

If this theory is true, it would support the benefit of taking a little Adex or asin when I do my TRT “boosts”. 200-250 test with .25 every 3.5 days or maybe even weekly would result in higher free test that just the test alone...plus you protect against high E2 sides like water retention / high BP.

Definitely Interesting to test further.


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gondar1 said:
Real quick here - Finding solid info on anything about Estrogen when taken from a bodybuilders perspective has frustrated me for years. Research is heavily slanted towards female's and the info for men is scant in comparison and usually contains confounding factors that make it hard to get a read on what the real life implications of the results are. (for me anyways).

Free test is super hard to accurately measure, I have heard or read that there can be significant differences from the same sample using the same machine during the same session. I can't provide a source for that info because I can't remember so take it for what it's worth.

Adex (and all AI's?) raise test so it makes at least some sense that your free test might rise too.

And this is an insightful thought from Sorb for sure -


That is truly a tiny dose of Adex you are talking about I know you are taking an almost bare minimum of T but your reaction to the Adex sure rings of "Adex over-responder syndrome" , off the top of my head I think that about 10-15% or so of male users fall into that category. Might be worth looking into, be prepared to dig hard if you do go looking, I don't recall seeing many spoonfed type answers that were more than anecdotal.
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as always thx for the input. I actually think being an over responder Is a benefit in this case as I can take it in lower dosages and get the desired effect. It would also make sense as I am an over responder to many medicines including caffeine.

So you agree a 50% decrease or 15pg/ml is a fairly significant impact from .25 per week? I did not get BW last time with asin...Think if you are an high responder for one I would also be for the other?


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Oldguyjiujitsu said:
as always thx for the input. I actually think being an over responder Is a benefit in this case as I can take it in lower dosages and get the desired effect. I agree to an extent but the downside is how finicky dosing it may get. The fact that you have actual pharma product will mitigate that to some degree though. Pharma gives me a fair bit of confidence in regards to accurate dosing of the contents, much tougher for an ugl to have a high degree of accuracy even with the best intentions of doing so. It would be a bit more expensive but you may want to consider having smaller doses made up at a compounding pharmacy to help dose as accurately as possible.It would also make sense as I am an over responder to many medicines including caffeine.

So you agree a 50% decrease or 15pg/ml is a fairly significant impact from .25 per week? yes I did not get BW last time with asin...Think if you are an high responder for one I would also be for the other? no


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Sorbate said:
Do you have any links?
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flexappeal said:
https://universityhealthnews.com/da...e/8-surprising-high-estrogen-symptoms-in-men/
https://www.letsgetchecked.com/articles/high-estrogen-in-men/

There's a couple for ya and maybe @Bagua has some he could post (y)
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I don't think I ever referenced this before because I'm often critical of the source but whether you usually agree with these folks or not there are tons of statements here that could send you chasing down the rabbits hole for years. Test and Est and related meds for aging....

https://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2014/6/Misguided-Medicine/Page-01
 
My most surprising learning has been arimidex impact on Test.

Prior to this i had a micro view of AIs - strictly as a way to prevent high estrogen sides. I now have a more macro view of its role in the anabolic process.

Significant result:
110 mg Test C+ No AI = 550 pmol free test
110 mg test C + 0.25mg Adex per week = 750 pmol free test

That is a 35% increase in test! Not looking at the downside of AI use, mg for mg you get a significant bang for your buck adding in a little adex to your test. Ironically over the last 6 weeks i was getting stronger and stronger in the gym and looking a little thicker but could not figure out why because I was not doing anything different with my program, diet or TRT. (did not consider adex having impact on my test #)

What this means for me:
When i do my next boost of test above TRT dosages, i will use 200mg + adex or aromasin because besides my goal to always keep E2 <28 pg/ml theoretically i would achieve the same Free test level as taking 270mg of test alone with no ai.

I guess my one question is, we know adex and asin work differently, can one expect the same 35% increase from asin as adex? Is the prevents conversion the key for adex or is the prevents E attaching to receptors for asin different?? (sorry bioscience language)
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
...

I guess my one question is, we know adex and asin work differently, can one expect the same 35% increase from asin as adex? Is the prevents conversion the key for adex or is the prevents E attaching to receptors for asin different?? (sorry bioscience language)
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Fucked if I can remember for sure but I think Asin usually raises it slightly more than adex, pretty sure that part of it boils down mainly to the level of LH in the subject (Lutenizing Hormone) (spelling?). Despite the differences in how they work both of them raise LH. This is a good example of the confounding factors in the research I mentioned before, I don't ever remember seeing a paper that was "clean" that addressed this. Studies on 100 year old men or women with breast cancer or in vitro don't really help paint a clear picture for someone on TRT or a cycle in my mind.

Keep up the nice tight research protocol and you may become a groundbreaker on the matter!

Edit - *Luteinizing , some words just fuck me up forever
2nd Edit - raise not lower thanks @Randy
 
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