Some TRT Experiments and Learnings

Oldguyjiujitsu

OAF
Trusted Member
So for the past few months have been in search of the top Test dosage that does not require an AI. Thought i would share my results and learnings as this was a tedious but valuable learning experience. Obviously individual results will vary. Each experiment i would make a slight change to test dosage and then get blood work 8 weeks later.

1. 90mg once per week - Free Test 460 pmol/L and E2 43 pmol/l
2. 100mg once per week - Free Test 530 pmol/l and E2 93 pmol/l (25pg/ml)
3. 110mg two pins per week (was planning on 100 but always seemed to draw little more than 0.5cc) - Free Test 580 and E2 103 pmol/l (28pg/ml)

Learnings:
- At all 3 levels mood and energy were about the same...good
- With each slight change in Test got about a 4 week boost in libido until T and E found their natural balance
- At 90mg E2 was too low and so libido was a little low
- Small changes in test MG had linear changes in Free test and slightly lower % changes to E2.
- I was stronger and fuller with Test over 500. Under 500 could not make progress in gym but was making small gains over 500.
- The multiple pins per week experiment was to see if pinning twice per week would reduce E2. For me it did not make a noticeable difference.
- I liked two pins per week as test levels did feel more stable and i liked the lower muscle displacement with mini pins.
- TRT Dr said i was border line of needing an AI at 110mg so gave me a script for arimidex incase i wanted it, she said at 28pm/ml it was my choice..which i took for a rainy day :)
- Will do 100ml moving forward as my base. Will mostly do two pins per week but may switch back to one.

Don't have to go back for one year so will do a few more experiments with TRT Boosts :)
 
Last edited:
So for the past few months have been in search of the top Test dosage that does not require an AI. Thought i would share my results and learnings as this was a tedious but valuable learning experience. Obviously individual results will vary. Each experiment i would make a slight change to test dosage and then get blood work 8 weeks later.

1. 90mg once per week - Free Test 460 pmol/L and E2 43 pmol/l
2. 100mg once per week - Free Test 530 pmol/l and E2 93 pmol/l (25pg/ml)
3. 110mg two pins per week (was planning on 100 but always seemed to draw little more than 0.5cc) - Free Test 580 and E2 103 pmol/l (28pg/ml)

...

Love it!
2 questions - When were bloods drawn with reference to last dose pinned and what were Total Test levels?
I think both these are important, levels of both T and E will vary overtime and Total Test level as a starting point seems more prudent as their is not much you can do to influence conversion and resulting Free test levels.
 
Love it!
2 questions - When were bloods drawn with reference to last dose pinned and what were Total Test levels?
I think both these are important, levels of both T and E will vary overtime and Total Test level as a starting point seems more prudent as their is not much you can do to influence conversion and resulting Free test levels.

Q1 - For experiment #1 and #2 blood was drawn 1/2 way between injections. For experiment #3 i was taking pins Sun and Wed evenings, I got the blood work Wed morning so was not 1/2 between but at my lowest point. Do you think this would have impacted the Test or Estrogen number? I was not really thinking when i booked the appoint to keep all the variables exactly the same (i should know better).

Q2 - I don't actually know the Total test levels. My GP looks at both but the TRT Dr only looks at the E2 and Free Test and the 3 experiments were done with the TRT Dr. Thoughts? Any potential hypothesis?

PS...on a light note - I was back to my GP last month and i told her i had been to the TRT Private Clinic...She asked "What that cost?" I told her and she laughed saying "that's stupid" she then asked what dosages i was at, she glanced over the blood work they had done and then wrote me a script for the 100mg of test saying "you don't have to go back there"
 
Q1 - For experiment #1 and #2 blood was drawn 1/2 way between injections. For experiment #3 i was taking pins Sun and Wed evenings, I got the blood work Wed morning so was not 1/2 between but at my lowest point. Do you think this would have impacted the Test or Estrogen number? Absolutely as your test peaks will be different, probably pretty minor differences at these levels though as compared to at heavy cycle dosages I was not really thinking when i booked the appoint to keep all the variables exactly the same (i should know better).

Q2 - I don't actually know the Total test levels. My GP looks at both but the TRT Dr only looks at the E2 and Free Test and the 3 experiments were done with the TRT Dr. Thoughts? Any potential hypothesis? I guess I'm hung up on knowing the Total for two reasons - First because it's the only part you can really control and second because afaik they have not figured out how to really accurately measure free test yet due to the amounts of it in a blood sample being incredibly small.

Okay a third reason, I think the majority of Dr's go by Total too. This may be an outdated view and also maybe not the best line of thinking considering that it seems a ton of Dr are damn near clueless about TRT.


PS...on a light note - I was back to my GP last month and i told her i had been to the TRT Private Clinic...She asked "What that cost?" I told her and she laughed saying "that's stupid" she then asked what dosages i was at, she glanced over the blood work they had done and then wrote me a script for the 100mg of test saying "you don't have to go back there" Noice!
 
New Experiment

So started another experiment 4 weeks ago. This was a "little bump" in testosterone and to assess how my body reacts to an AI (the goal was to keep E2 to under 30 pg/ml) and to see how 200mg to test per week felt compared to 100mg (my top TRT level without an AI).

Well it did not go as anticipated and had to shutdown this experiment down after week 4. I got fairly significant PIP (which is not usual for me), my allergies kicked up and i got an itchy rash on my chest. Not sure the root cause; if it was the UGL test or the aromasin. Either way shut it down until sides go away and then will plan the next experiment. There were some learning:

1. The aromasin "felt" like it was doing its job. I could feel my e2 go down a day after taking it. My first sign of higher E2 is i get a little emotional (which is not at all me). I had planned to get bloods between week 6-8 but did not get there.
2. Did not need much of an ai to get the desired effect. Did not get bloods so it was pure feel but never went above 6.25mg twice per week.
3. I tend to feel changes to test levels very quickly. in the 4 weeks, my libido was up, i got more vascular, a little leaner and was up 3 lbs.
4. During the short period did not appear to retain any water (i am lean so would be able to see it) and no increase in BP (which can be an issue for me).

Well, on to the next plan. :)
 
I will be doing a similar log pretty quick here as I want to also do some experiments with my TRT. Very interested to see what you discover as well @Oldguyjiujitsu

Look forward to comparing notes. My goals are modest: feel good, stay lean, continue to make some gains in the gym and “active” longevity as I approach 50.

I guess not all learning’s will be positive. That itchy rash has me scratching my head a bit? Not sure if others have experienced a similar thing? (but I can be sensitive to some chemicals and medication.)


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At 200 mg a week you will make gradual gains if you are consistent with your diet and training. I have been pretty much running 200 since last February, except a little blast I was going to do before my colon acted up.
I gained likely 5 lbs of lean tissue last year, noticeable growth.
 
At 200 mg a week you will make gradual gains if you are consistent with your diet and training. I have been pretty much running 200 since last February, except a little blast I was going to do before my colon acted up.
I gained likely 5 lbs of lean tissue last year, noticeable growth.

Yes, I definitely felt that I could make gains on 200mg per week with minor water retention but I do need a small amount of ai. Once I get some arimidex from my Dr. I will try that again


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Yes, I definitely felt that I could make gains on 200mg per week with minor water retention but I do need a small amount of ai. Once I get some arimidex from my Dr. I will try that again


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I don’t ever use ai unless my cock isn’t working the way I want, lol.
Truthfully your body seems to balance itself and after a while the libido comes back the same. It’s just not turbo charged like what it would be on 200 mg. I’ve been married for 20+ years, being that horney does me no good, I just end up beating it too much, lol. We have been banging like monkeys for years and have an 8 year old in the house, so a couple times a week is more than enough, lol.
 
I don’t ever use ai unless my cock isn’t working the way I want, lol.
Truthfully your body seems to balance itself and after a while the libido comes back the same. It’s just not turbo charged like what it would be on 200 mg. I’ve been married for 20+ years, being that horney does me no good, I just end up beating it too much, lol. We have been banging like monkeys for years and have an 8 year old in the house, so a couple times a week is more than enough, lol.

Ha ha I agree about the libido. For me, I want to keep E2 under 30pg/ml to prevent water retention and high BP. It’s also a bit prostate protective... I am probably bit of a hypochondriac lol


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At 200 mg a week you will make gradual gains if you are consistent with your diet and training. I have been pretty much running 200 since last February, except a little blast I was going to do before my colon acted up.
I gained likely 5 lbs of lean tissue last year, noticeable growth.

I be very happy with 5 solid pounds per year.


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I be very happy with 5 solid pounds per year.


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Well I’m at the same lean level as last February when I went to Mexico. Had to liquid diet for a couple weeks, got pretty ripped, anyhow then I was 172, now I’m 178, since last feb I ran no more than 250 test a week. Only for 2 weeks I started to blast and my guts fell apart. So anyways 6 lbs. when I hit my leanest last year I went down to 168, I bet I’d be 173-4 at 8% this year if I pushed it. Now mind you I ate really good since feb. I went from 172 to 187. Was getting a bit fat.
I really havnt noticed any enlarged prostate signs. When my guts were the worst and after Bagua put up the symptoms about prostate cancer I seriously jammed a finger up my ass and checked out my prostate. I was parnoid because my inflamed guts can give some of the symptoms of prostate cancer It didn’t feel that big, but I have never done that before so I had nothing to reference to.
And you think you are parnoid, lol.
And no I wasn’t kidding, sometimes I do weird shit, you know, work yourself up until you are crazy. Or am I the only guy to do that, lol.
 
Well I’m at the same lean level as last February when I went to Mexico. Had to liquid diet for a couple weeks, got pretty ripped, anyhow then I was 172, now I’m 178, since last feb I ran no more than 250 test a week. Only for 2 weeks I started to blast and my guts fell apart. So anyways 6 lbs. when I hit my leanest last year I went down to 168, I bet I’d be 173-4 at 8% this year if I pushed it. Now mind you I ate really good since feb. I went from 172 to 187. Was getting a bit fat.
I really havnt noticed any enlarged prostate signs. When my guts were the worst and after Bagua put up the symptoms about prostate cancer I seriously jammed a finger up my ass and checked out my prostate. I was parnoid because my inflamed guts can give some of the symptoms of prostate cancer It didn’t feel that big, but I have never done that before so I had nothing to reference to.
And you think you are parnoid, lol.
And no I wasn’t kidding, sometimes I do weird shit, you know, work yourself up until you are crazy. Or am I the only guy to do that, lol.

"You are not the only guy to work yourself up" but If you are a person that gets really focused and diligent about your goals, i believe we tend to be a little OCD (in a good way). When it comes to sides it is in our best interest to be cautious versus ignore and be sorry later...we ain't twenty anymore and i am definitely not bulletproof anymore. When i started to get weird sides (likely an allergic reaction to a preservative in the Test or a binder in the aromasin) i shut it all down and went back to TRT...even though i was getting leaner and was up 3 lbs. I think slow and steady gains at 200mg/ keeping my E2 less than 28 pg/ml (preferable 22 pg/ml) is a good thing from me. i will do that experiment again as soon as i get some script ai.

God man, i hope you can get the chronic gut pain under control...you want to talk about something that can drive you crazy. I once had an MRSA up in my nose for 3 years...i had myself convinced i was going to die.

Cheers.
 
"You are not the only guy to work yourself up" but If you are a person that gets really focused and diligent about your goals, i believe we tend to be a little OCD (in a good way). When it comes to sides it is in our best interest to be cautious versus ignore and be sorry later...we ain't twenty anymore and i am definitely not bulletproof anymore. When i started to get weird sides (likely an allergic reaction to a preservative in the Test or a binder in the aromasin) i shut it all down and went back to TRT...even though i was getting leaner and was up 3 lbs. I think slow and steady gains at 200mg/ keeping my E2 less than 28 pg/ml (preferable 22 pg/ml) is a good thing from me. i will do that experiment again as soon as i get some script ai.

God man, i hope you can get the chronic gut pain under control...you want to talk about something that can drive you crazy. I once had an MRSA up in my nose for 3 years...i had myself convinced i was going to die.

Cheers.

When they resection my colon it will be gone, lol. I've got it pretty under control right now. Just changing diet a bit, more liquid less solid food.
That is all I'm doing with gear from now on also. I got carried away for a while. Now 200 a week, balance my estrogen. I'll just pretty much copy your protocol, lol.
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

For one, deficiency in vitamin D has been shown to cause significant elevations in SHBG levels and thus, lowered levels of free-testosterone (study, study, study).

Also, long-term supplementation (1-year) with 3332 IU of vitamin D3 resulted in average increase of 25.2% in total testosterone levels and 20% increase in free-testosterone levels of healthy men when compared to placebo.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857


According to one human study, roughly a gram of magnesium given to athletes results in 24% increase in free-testosterone levels. Optimal magnesium status has also been found to correlate significantly with higher testosterone levels in observational studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21675994
 
These sound like studies from the back pages of old Ironman magazines lol

Boron🤣


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

For one, deficiency in vitamin D has been shown to cause significant elevations in SHBG levels and thus, lowered levels of free-testosterone (study, study, study).

Also, long-term supplementation (1-year) with 3332 IU of vitamin D3 resulted in average increase of 25.2% in total testosterone levels and 20% increase in free-testosterone levels of healthy men when compared to placebo.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857


According to one human study, roughly a gram of magnesium given to athletes results in 24% increase in free-testosterone levels. Optimal magnesium status has also been found to correlate significantly with higher testosterone levels in observational studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21675994
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

For one, deficiency in vitamin D has been shown to cause significant elevations in SHBG levels and thus, lowered levels of free-testosterone (study, study, study).

Also, long-term supplementation (1-year) with 3332 IU of vitamin D3 resulted in average increase of 25.2% in total testosterone levels and 20% increase in free-testosterone levels of healthy men when compared to placebo.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857


According to one human study, roughly a gram of magnesium given to athletes results in 24% increase in free-testosterone levels. Optimal magnesium status has also been found to correlate significantly with higher testosterone levels in observational studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21675994

My TRT Doctor is also a big fan of D3 to aid and improve Testosterone levels. But I’m not sure how that would work if you’re like me (on TRT) and been completely shutdown for years?


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