it was very surprising indeed.
a friend gave me a couple hundred packs because it fluctuates too much and he said it was useless. @animal-inside he also said that moisturizing afterward worked better, but still not as well as inject.
I was involved, in a very minor level, with the development of one of these products. I can't/won't say too much because of an nda but I can say things in general terms. The truth of the matter is that (at least as of a few years ago) the 1/2 life and conversion rates in humans of any transdermal products are extremely hard to predict, it's basically a crap shoot. However I do believe these are the "highest" results I have seen from androgel.
So many variables at play, differences in each individual's skin alone can make a huge difference as well as which part of the body it is applies to. For example if you put it on your scrotum to increase the rate of conversion to dht that would affect the total and free test results. @animal-inside mentions some other factors of influence, they are essentially endless.
Post #48 by @Bagua is a good illustration of this randomness of results, It appears to be from an official source of some manufacturer or science group but if you try to consolidate all the numbers they present (some with statistically very wide ranges ) none of it adds up. I brought this up during a few meetings and questioned the ethics of releasing the numbers that were presented to the public, it was easy to see that my thoughts were not appreciated by the higher ups. Eventually I was told my services were no longer required.
Sidebar :
Further muddling of the waters for us meatheads - Once again @musclememory 's post brings up the subject of 1/2 lives, it always seems hard to discuss on the boards and most of the time the term used is simply "half life" but it is important to note that without a qualifier that term usually is assumed to have a meaning something along the lines of -"the amount of time required for a specific property of a substance to decrease by half" .
It seems most of our bro discussions use this and the info we commonly receive to make our decisions ie If I take a shot of 100 mg of Test, after one "half-life" I will have 50 mg left because half of it has been eliminated, hence the more correct term "elimination half-life"
Here is the problem - "Elimination half life" is based on the administration of one dose of a compound. In our world most drugs are cycled for a period of some weeks or more so how important is elimination half-life? IMO "terminal half-life" is what needs to be considered. Terminal 1/2 life is defined as "Terminal plasma half-life is the time required to divide the plasma concentration by two after reaching pseudo-equilibrium, and not the time required to eliminate half the administered dose. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15601438 -
Terminal plasma half-life is the time required to divide the plasma concentration by two after reaching pseudo-equilibrium, and not the time required to eliminate half the administered dose. When the process of absorption is not a limiting factor, half-life is a hybrid parameter controlled by plasma clearance and extent of distribution. In contrast, when the process of absorption is a limiting factor, the terminal half-life reflects rate and extent of absorption and not the elimination process (flip-flop pharmacokinetics). The terminal half-life is especially relevant to multiple dosing regimens, because it controls the degree of drug accumulation, concentration fluctuations and the time taken to reach equilibrium.
I was involved, in a very minor level, with the development of one of these products. I can't/won't say too much because of an nda but I can say things in general terms. The truth of the matter is that (at least as of a few years ago) the 1/2 life and conversion rates in humans of any transdermal products are extremely hard to predict, it's basically a crap shoot. However I do believe these are the "highest" results I have seen from androgel.
So many variables at play, differences in each individual's skin alone can make a huge difference as well as which part of the body it is applies to. For example if you put it on your scrotum to increase the rate of conversion to dht that would affect the total and free test results. @animal-inside mentions some other factors of influence, they are essentially endless.
Post #48 by @Bagua is a good illustration of this randomness of results, It appears to be from an official source of some manufacturer or science group but if you try to consolidate all the numbers they present (some with statistically very wide ranges ) none of it adds up. I brought this up during a few meetings and questioned the ethics of releasing the numbers that were presented to the public, it was easy to see that my thoughts were not appreciated by the higher ups. Eventually I was told my services were no longer required.
Sidebar :
Further muddling of the waters for us meatheads - Once again @musclememory 's post brings up the subject of 1/2 lives, it always seems hard to discuss on the boards and most of the time the term used is simply "half life" but it is important to note that without a qualifier that term usually is assumed to have a meaning something along the lines of -"the amount of time required for a specific property of a substance to decrease by half" .
It seems most of our bro discussions use this and the info we commonly receive to make our decisions ie If I take a shot of 100 mg of Test, after one "half-life" I will have 50 mg left because half of it has been eliminated, hence the more correct term "elimination half-life"
Here is the problem - "Elimination half life" is based on the administration of one dose of a compound. In our world most drugs are cycled for a period of some weeks or more so how important is elimination half-life? IMO "terminal half-life" is what needs to be considered. Terminal 1/2 life is defined as "Terminal plasma half-life is the time required to divide the plasma concentration by two after reaching pseudo-equilibrium, and not the time required to eliminate half the administered dose. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15601438 -
Terminal plasma half-life is the time required to divide the plasma concentration by two after reaching pseudo-equilibrium, and not the time required to eliminate half the administered dose. When the process of absorption is not a limiting factor, half-life is a hybrid parameter controlled by plasma clearance and extent of distribution. In contrast, when the process of absorption is a limiting factor, the terminal half-life reflects rate and extent of absorption and not the elimination process (flip-flop pharmacokinetics). The terminal half-life is especially relevant to multiple dosing regimens, because it controls the degree of drug accumulation, concentration fluctuations and the time taken to reach equilibrium.
. I have no interest whatsoever in argueing back and forth but I will answer. My answer is based on the science as I interpret it and backed up by many real life bloodwork results from multiple subjects including myself.
