Cycle advice - Test/Mast/NPP

[Deca]

Looking for some opinions on an upcoming cycle. I have been on TRT with a dose of 180mg/week for close to 2 years, with everything dialed in.

I am 5’11”, 205 lbs in good shape and mid 30s, although a bit of belly fat holding on (just covering bottom 2 abs from visual). I workout 4-5x a week and do cardio 3x a week (2x HIIT, 1x steady state). Weight training after cardio and an additional 2x a week.

I want to increase my athletic ability, increasing my cardio and overall endurance with minimal strength loss. With blood work, I’m usually high end of RBC and regularly give blood, but am trying to prevent any drastic increase in RBC.

I’ve done 7 cycles, a few with deca and one with anavar, however typically test only.

Im looking at doing the following cycle for 16 weeks:
Test E 400mg/week
Mast 400mg/week
NPP 150mg/week

AI on hand and comfortable noticing increased e2 effects, but will dose appropriately. As I’m on TRT, no PCT and will return to TRT dose.

Any advice on dosages that will increase my athletic capabilities without affecting my cardio/endurance (ideally increasing that)?

 

[4_horsemen]

Looking for some opinions on an upcoming cycle. I have been on TRT with a dose of 180mg/week for close to 2 years, with everything dialed in.

I am 5’11”, 205 lbs in good shape and mid 30s, although a bit of belly fat holding on (just covering bottom 2 abs from visual). I workout 4-5x a week and do cardio 3x a week (2x HIIT, 1x steady state). Weight training after cardio and an additional 2x a week.

I want to increase my athletic ability, increasing my cardio and overall endurance with minimal strength loss. With blood work, I’m usually high end of RBC and regularly give blood, but am trying to prevent any drastic increase in RBC.

I’ve done 7 cycles, a few with deca and one with anavar, however typically test only.

Im looking at doing the following cycle for 16 weeks:
Test E 400mg/week
Mast 400mg/week
NPP 150mg/week

AI on hand and comfortable noticing increased e2 effects, but will dose appropriately. As I’m on TRT, no PCT and will return to TRT dose.

Any advice on dosages that will increase my athletic capabilities without affecting my cardio/endurance (ideally increasing that)?

Personally I would swap your test and npp dosages.

If your ok with a low-ish estrogen, you will enjoy this cycle.

I recently did a 20 week cycle of 200 test, 450 NPP and 450 primo and it was excellent. No side effects and it was my first time running nand. No AI’s needed.

Credit to ironwill for this cycle idea.

 

[Deca]

I was going with lower NPP to get the joint relief, which I found great with DECA in the past. I didn’t want to bloat or increase size, which was my experience with around 400mg deca in the past.

With trying to minimize bloat and aiming for more lean muscle increase, not size, would you still suggest the 200 Test/400NPP?

 

[4_horsemen]

I was going with lower NPP to get the joint relief, which I found great with DECA in the past. I didn’t want to bloat or increase size, which was my experience with around 400mg deca in the past.

With trying to minimize bloat and aiming for more lean muscle increase, not size, would you still suggest the 200 Test/400NPP?

I would. I didn’t get any bloat at all on this cycle, but YMMV

You could always start the npp and mast lower and titrate up

 

[Framerboy]

Deca holds more water then NPP . NPP is so shorter esters so sides won't be as bad . I've never bloated or held water on Npp and didn't really need anything for Prolactin either . Id swap your test and npp dosages if anything plus the mast will help with water retention and has AI properties even though you probably won't get much if any.. I've blasted npp all the way to 750 mg a week and was fine .. If it was me and wanted to be safe I'd do say 250 test or 300 with 400 npp or 450 .. this is just my experience

 

[Deca]

I appreciate the advice. I’ll lower the test and increase the NPP. Would you guys suggest keeping the mast around 400?

 

[4_horsemen]

I appreciate the advice. I’ll lower the test and increase the NPP. Would you guys suggest keeping the mast around 400?

Have you ran mast in the past? If so how was your experience? Did you ge any side effects? Does it do anything to your estrogen, blood pressure, hair, etc?

I’d suggest having your mast at least as equal to your nandrolone dose, to prevent the DHN metabolites from competing from low DHT.

I prefer to use primo as I like it better when compared with mast, but you should be fine with mast. It will act like a serm, specifically with your breast tissue.

 

[CoolRick]

Looks good to me. I wouldn't change anything.

 

[Deca]

Have you ran mast in the past? If so how was your experience? Did you ge any side effects? Does it do anything to your estrogen, blood pressure, hair, etc?

I’d suggest having your mast at least as equal to your nandrolone dose, to prevent the DHN metabolites from competing from low DHT.

I prefer to use primo as I like it better when compared with mast, but you should be fine with mast. It will act like a serm, specifically with your breast tissue.

I have not ran mast in the past, this will be the first time. Had it on hand from a previous order and thought I’d give it a try.

 

[Goldenrod]

Deca holds more water then NPP . NPP is so shorter esters so sides won't be as bad . I've never bloated or held water on Npp and didn't really need anything for Prolactin either . Id swap your test and npp dosages if anything plus the mast will help with water retention and has AI properties even though you probably won't get much if any.. I've blasted npp all the way to 750 mg a week and was fine .. If it was me and wanted to be safe I'd do say 250 test or 300 with 400 npp or 450 .. this is just my experience

Hi @Framerboy - take my comments in the spirit they are given, just my opinion/experiences. I think your a great member who adds in good info but NPP and Deca are the same compound with a different ester. Just like test prop vs test enanthate. Test prop is known for less water too so I see the logic behind that comment. I know you know this already but we can't say for fact everyone won't retain water on NPP or won't need anything for prolactin either. You didn't - you just stated you and I am just stating me so this is not meant to be confrontational in any way or saying you are wrong. Anyone using Deca or NPP also has to be aware of deca dick - it kills a % of the population's sex drive and ability. Some people say NPP doesn't and deca does which I find almost impossible to follow scientifically. I am not saying they are lying but it is the exact same compound so I wonder if there is a psychological component involved or they are just one of the lucky ones and I am flat wrong.

For example - Deca = I am good for 2 weeks and then my sex drive goes down and I can't perform without C or V. NPP = 4 days and it kicks in and leaves 'approximately' the same duration of time when I stop. I love Deca for power and size but hate it for what it does to my sex life.

To @Deca at minimum if you are going to run NPP or Deca at 400 mg per week or at all, I would throw some B-6, P-5-P (just considered a better form of B-6) or buy injectable B-6 if you want 100% bioavailability. B-6 is good for keeping prolactin in check. It can't hurt and if you are looking for studies on this head to the health section as I posted some there before.

Won't comment on the dosages as that is more than I would take in a 'cycle'. If you are going to run this cycle, I would do myself a favour and get hormonal blood tests for a baseline before you start so if anything feels off, you can do it again and compare. If you can't get it done through the doc, go to a Naturopath and pay for it but tell them in writing you don't want it in your medical file. You are paying for it so it is yours and yours alone.
Good luck what ever you do.

 

[4_horsemen]

Hi @Framerboy - take my comments in the spirit they are given, just my opinion/experiences. I think your a great member who adds in good info but NPP and Deca are the same compound with a different ester. Just like test prop vs test enanthate. Test prop is known for less water too so I see the logic behind that comment. I know you know this already but we can't say for fact everyone won't retain water on NPP or won't need anything for prolactin either. You didn't - you just stated you and I am just stating me so this is not meant to be confrontational in any way or saying you are wrong. Anyone using Deca or NPP also has to be aware of deca dick - it kills a % of the population's sex drive and ability. Some people say NPP doesn't and deca does which I find almost impossible to follow scientifically. I am not saying they are lying but it is the exact same compound so I wonder if there is a psychological component involved or they are just one of the lucky ones and I am flat wrong.

For example - Deca = I am good for 2 weeks and then my sex drive goes down and I can't perform without C or V. NPP = 4 days and it kicks in and leaves 'approximately' the same duration of time when I stop. I love Deca for power and size but hate it for what it does to my sex life.

To @Deca at minimum if you are going to run NPP or Deca at 400 mg per week or at all, I would throw some B-6, P-5-P (just considered a better form of B-6) or buy injectable B-6 if you want 100% bioavailability. B-6 is good for keeping prolactin in check. It can't hurt and if you are looking for studies on this head to the health section as I posted some there before.

Won't comment on the dosages as that is more than I would take in a 'cycle'. If you are going to run this cycle, I would do myself a favour and get hormonal blood tests for a baseline before you start so if anything feels off, you can do it again and compare. If you can't get it done through the doc, go to a Naturopath and pay for it but tell them in writing you don't want it in your medical file. You are paying for it so it is yours and yours alone.
Good luck what ever you do.

Great info. I forgot to mention the P5P. I was using 300mg a day, split evenly throughout the day.

 

[Framerboy]

Hi @Framerboy - take my comments in the spirit they are given, just my opinion/experiences. I think your a great member who adds in good info but NPP and Deca are the same compound with a different ester. Just like test prop vs test enanthate. Test prop is known for less water too so I see the logic behind that comment. I know you know this already but we can't say for fact everyone won't retain water on NPP or won't need anything for prolactin either. You didn't - you just stated you and I am just stating me so this is not meant to be confrontational in any way or saying you are wrong. Anyone using Deca or NPP also has to be aware of deca dick - it kills a % of the population's sex drive and ability. Some people say NPP doesn't and deca does which I find almost impossible to follow scientifically. I am not saying they are lying but it is the exact same compound so I wonder if there is a psychological component involved or they are just one of the lucky ones and I am flat wrong.

For example - Deca = I am good for 2 weeks and then my sex drive goes down and I can't perform without C or V. NPP = 4 days and it kicks in and leaves 'approximately' the same duration of time when I stop. I love Deca for power and size but hate it for what it does to my sex life.

To @Deca at minimum if you are going to run NPP or Deca at 400 mg per week or at all, I would throw some B-6, P-5-P (just considered a better form of B-6) or buy injectable B-6 if you want 100% bioavailability. B-6 is good for keeping prolactin in check. It can't hurt and if you are looking for studies on this head to the health section as I posted some there before.

Won't comment on the dosages as that is more than I would take in a 'cycle'. If you are going to run this cycle, I would do myself a favour and get hormonal blood tests for a baseline before you start so if anything feels off, you can do it again and compare. If you can't get it done through the doc, go to a Naturopath and pay for it but tell them in writing you don't want it in your medical file. You are paying for it so it is yours and yours alone.
Good luck what ever you do.

Your absolutely right!! I should have added that for me this is what I found. Everyone does react differently. When I run deca I found I had to run something for Prolactin EOD as to NPP I never needed to be so aggressive. Also noted I did find I was holding less water retention everytime I ran it . If it was my first time I'd chalk it up as my diet could have been different but since I've ran it numerous times the same thing happend . I couldn't figure it out if they're the same compound just different esters why? What I came up with least on paper was since NPP was a shorter ester it didn't have the same amount of time to secrete and cause bad sides as to Deca . Now this is just my experience so that I should have added in my previous comment . I also did find I got more lean mass with NPP then deca .. If it was me and I had to choose for joint health I'd go deca for the less oil/shots I'd have to administer weekly, for lean mass I'd go with npp .. But again everyone is different.. Cheers . Any insight is good insight ..

 

[Deca]

I appreciate all the advice. I just ordered some p-5-p.

I think I will modify the dosage a bit to 300 test/300 mast/200 NPP and see how I feel overall after a few weeks. I bumped my TRT dosage up already so will see how I am affected by the mast and NPP.

@Goldenrod What daily dose of p-5-p do you suggest?

 

[Goldenrod]

I appreciate all the advice. I just ordered some p-5-p.

I think I will modify the dosage a bit to 300 test/300 mast/200 NPP and see how I feel overall after a few weeks. I bumped my TRT dosage up already so will see how I am affected by the mast and NPP.

@Goldenrod What daily dose of p-5-p do you suggest?

Hi @Deca, I use injectable B-6 and would have to look up the dosage I settled on daily with an insulin needle. I know about P-5-P but someone may be better able to answer this question since I never used it. Consider the study I posted was with basic B-6 so there is nothing wrong with oral B-6 too.

 

[CoolRick]

I appreciate all the advice. I just ordered some p-5-p.

I think I will modify the dosage a bit to 300 test/300 mast/200 NPP and see how I feel overall after a few weeks. I bumped my TRT dosage up already so will see how I am affected by the mast and NPP.

@Goldenrod What daily dose of p-5-p do you suggest?

100-200mg before bed is the typical dosage. With the mast in your cycle you probably wont need it though.

 

[4_horsemen]

100-200mg before bed is the typical dosage. With the mast in your cycle you probably wont need it though.

Rick do you mind expanding on this?

I don’t think mast will do anything to control a rise in prolactin

250-300mg P5P a day is a recommended dose to control prolactin

 

[CoolRick]

Rick do you mind expanding on this?

I don’t think mast will do anything to control a rise in prolactin

250-300mg P5P a day is a recommended dose to control prolactin

I agree, it doesn't seem to lower prolactin. From what I gather high prolactin seems to be antagonstic to 5a-reductase resulting in lower DHT. Mast or just about any "DHT" compound(minus anadrol and superdrol*) seems to combat the effects of prolactin by giving the user more DHT or something like DHT.
*Anadrol and superdrol in some people can cause high prolactin.

At anyrate, the addition of DHTs solve prolactin related issues for a lot users when using 19 nors, myself included.

As far as the P5P dosage goes, I'm not sure if you're correcting me or that's your recommendation.

 

[4_horsemen]

I agree, it doesn't seem to lower prolactin. From what I gather high prolactin seems to be antagonstic to 5a-reductase resulting in lower DHT. Mast or just about any "DHT" compound(minus anadrol and superdrol*) seems to combat the effects of prolactin by giving the user more DHT or something like DHT.
*Anadrol and superdrol in some people can cause high prolactin.

At anyrate, the addition of DHTs solve prolactin related issues for a lot users when using 19 nors, myself included.

As far as the P5P dosage goes, I'm not sure if you're correcting me or that's your recommendation.

This is interesting, first I have heard of it. Do you happen to have any source for this? I’d like to read more about it.

From my understanding of masteron, it was created to be used in breast cancer treatment. It acts as a SERM in a way to block estrogen/aromatase from acting on the estrogen receptors in the breast. Perhaps this might help with the prolactin issues?

My last cycle I ran 200mg of mast along with a higher dose of nandrolone to help with any potential gyno issues. It must have worked, or it was the 300mg of P5P daily, who knows.

 

[CoolRick]

This is interesting, first I have heard of it. Do you happen to have any source for this? I’d like to read more about it.

From my understanding of masteron, it was created to be used in breast cancer treatment. It acts as a SERM in a way to block estrogen/aromatase from acting on the estrogen receptors in the breast. Perhaps this might help with the prolactin issues?

My last cycle I ran 200mg of mast along with a higher dose of nandrolone to help with any potential gyno issues. It must have worked, or it was the 300mg of P5P daily, who knows.

I'm not sure if you remember, but we had a conversation about this a few months back. There's quite a bit in there about my bro science theories on maybe how it works based on my own observations and a little bit research. It should be similar in this case.

I really didn't like P5P, i felt kinda groggy and it reminded me a bit of prami. Mast or primo just solves the estrogen and prolactin for me perfectly with 19 nors. Nice steady libido, good erections and everything is in order. Plus they have a very welcome cosmetic effect.

I'm sorry if I might sound like I'm brushing you off, but after that troll "HorrorCock" figured out the perfect AI algorithm to induce headaches and brain cell loss I really can't be bothered about the nitty gritty science stuff anymore lol. On the other hand a simple explanation is all I need now haha.

 

[4_horsemen]

I'm not sure if you remember, but we had a conversation about this a few months back. There's quite a bit in there about my bro science theories on maybe how it works based on my own observations and a little bit research. It should be similar in this case.

I really didn't like P5P, i felt kinda groggy and it reminded me a bit of prami. Mast or primo just solves the estrogen and prolactin for me perfectly with 19 nors. Nice steady libido, good erections and everything is in order. Plus they have a very welcome cosmetic effect.

I'm sorry if I might sound like I'm brushing you off, but after that troll "HorrorCock" figured out the perfect AI algorithm to induce headaches and brain cell loss I really can't be bothered about the nitty gritty science stuff anymore lol. On the other hand a simple explanation is all I need now haha.

Hahah I muted that guy a while back. Spamming every thread. I completely forgot about that conversation but I remember now hahaha

I definitely like those DHT derivatives as well when running 19-nor’s. It’s perfect when you find out what works well for you and keeping the side effects away.