Big bust *eye roll

[gondar1]

@biguglynewf the advice i posted was told to me by a criminal defence lawyer.

Yeah I think there is something to that although I know for sure of another case where there were no real (street) drugs only harmless powder that was being used in place of the supposed drugs. Didn't make a lick of difference, guys ended up being prosecuted as though the drugs were real. I believe that because they had set the deal up under the pretense of selling illegal shit the law still looked at as if they were real. Long time ago though...

 

[LePsyber]

Yeah I think there is something to that although I know for sure of another case where there were no real (street) drugs only harmless powder that was being used in place of the supposed drugs. Didn't make a lick of difference, guys ended up being prosecuted as though the drugs were real. I believe that because they had set the deal up under the pretense of selling illegal shit the law still looked at as if they were real. Long time ago though...

Possibly Fraudulent Intent. They'd try straight Fraud but I think that it would fail in court.

 

[biguglynewf]

@biguglynewf the advice i posted was told to me by a criminal defence lawyer.

Yeah.... like I said. Could be a decent tactic to try. Mostly smoke and mirrors though. He’d need more. Any good crown should be able to blow that out of the water though as long as the case was fairly simple and the facts were collected well.

Defence sometimes doesn’t have much of an actual defence so it’s more about steering away from the facts and attacking the credibility of the investigation. Introducing a degree of doubt.

If a crown lets that happen.... they need to go back to law school.

It’s also probably more suited to simple possession too. And nobody here is going to get done for possession of a sched 4 substance.

Manufacturing and importation and possibly distribution are more likely.... and for those charges.... it’s not going to matter what you have printed in the box.

Maybe there is wiggle room on possession for purpose if the evidence is weak....but even then if there’s other damning evidence.... and there probably will be. Phones, computers, lists, emt transfers etc. Worse.... raws and lab equipment, product in varying degrees of finish.....That argument will be quashed as soon as it’s entered.

 

[biguglynewf]

Possibly Fraudulent Intent. They'd try straight Fraud but I think that it would fail in court.

Frauds are ridiculously hard to prove.

 

[LePsyber]

Yeah.... like I said. Could be a decent tactic to try. Mostly smoke and mirrors though. He’d need more. Any good crown should be able to blow that out of the water though as long as the case was fairly simple and the facts were collected well.

Defence sometimes doesn’t have much of an actual defence so it’s more about steering away from the facts and attacking the credibility of the investigation. Introducing a degree of doubt.

If a crown lets that happen.... they need to go back to law school.

It’s also probably more suited to simple possession too. And nobody here is going to get done for possession of a sched 4 substance.

Manufacturing and importation and possibly distribution are more likely.... and for those charges.... it’s not going to matter what you have printed in the box.

Maybe there is wiggle room on possession for purpose if the evidence is weak....but even then if there’s other damning evidence.... and there probably will be. Phones, computers, lists, emt transfers etc. Worse.... raws and lab equipment, product in varying degrees of finish.....That argument will be quashed as soon as it’s entered.

I said it before. They did this as a tactic to make it look POP WOW! Publicity against what probably will cost the taxpayers WAY more than they ever took off the street.
Policing is about the response. You respond to calls or you do community service (and tell everybody with an ear that you did it). Everything has to have a police agency logo on it on any special days where police/fire/ambulance show up. Everybody has to know that you don't actually sit at donut shops.

Basically they're trying to make taxpayers raise their fists and go "Damn those steroid popping fiends! They'll be the death of us all!". Everything to justify the cost of popping and prosecuting a single guy for what's not much more than simple possession of a schedule IV substance for the purpose of.

It's like the movie Super Troopers. They seize like 300 pounds of (a green leafy substance), the governor shows up for a drug seizure photo op with tons of press. And then the governor finds out its (a green leafy substance) and says "Whaaat? It's only (a green leafy substance)? God what's the frigging point, awww what a waste!" while she wanders out of the room with the disappointed press that all assumed it was a 1/3 ton of (a white powdery substance).

I'm surprised Burlington PD doesn't have bigger fish than this to fry. This is like a Chatham PD type deal. (IMO one of the worst policing agencies in the entire country. They're like the landing point/staging city for a BUNCH of the drugs that get through the US/Ontario border and they hardly catch anybody)

 

[LePsyber]

Frauds are ridiculously hard to prove.

That they are.

It's like how all the cops get off from murdering a black dude they just poked 9 holes into for no reason. They say, "At the time I shot him I was afraid for my safety." How do you prove otherwise? How do you quantify risk to a jury that has to find him "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". How can a juror possibly know his "feelings of fear" and question them?
Unless there is evidence otherwise that shows the cop did illegal things, you have no other choice but find the fucking piece of shit innocent despite how shady some circumstances look.

 

[3ml]

This has "result of a side investigation discovered in the process of investigating a much larger investigation" written all over it. For the value of that to investigate is expensive. To put that through the courts with a possible appeal? As taxpayers, we should be outraged because the cost vs what they gained in "saving society from quote harmful drugs unquote" is going to be so freeking out of realism that it'll be horrible.

I mean they could have clipped him quickly and without a real investigation if he was criminally stupid but still, the cost of the courts with the crown involved? They'll have to bring in steroid specialists to testify about each compound. Each compound will probably have to be tested or the defence could say there's nothing more than oil in the bottles they didn't test. It has total fucking disaster written on it because it's a very rare occurrence. It'll be financial black hole for taxpayers to prosecute that guy.

They obviously released this to the news to get some "pop" behind what the final cost of this disaster will be. "Specialists" interviewed and spouting the evil of the needle. The public is not served if it costs 400 grand to take 70k in steroids off the street.

Hmm
Spreading wrong information as usual
It doesn’t matter what the fuck is in the bottles you are so so wrong. Even if it your favourite beverage Justin Trudeau’s sperm,
If it’s labeled tren
Guess what you are guilty
Selling drugs labelled as drugs with no active ingredient, you are still guilty. There is zero defense.

No different than selling any other drugs to an undercover even if it’s bunk

 

[3ml]

Hmm
Spreading wrong information as usual
It doesn’t matter what the fuck is in the bottles you are so so wrong. Even if it your favourite beverage Justin Trudeau’s sperm,
If it’s labeled tren
Guess what you are guilty
Selling drugs labelled as drugs with no active ingredient, you are still guilty. There is zero defense.

No different than selling any other drugs to an undercover even if it’s bunk

“Seldom do people think that they can go to jail for selling a few allergy pills as ecstasy or a bag of flower as cocaine. It’s a common misconception that simply selling products you can get at the grocery store can land you in trouble with the law. The reality is, if you sell any item that you’re trying to pass off as an illegal drug, it is still illegal. In fact, you could be facing both provincial and federal charges for your actions.”

There it is
Spent almost zero time researching it.

@LePsyber you have zero credibility. You lie, your “info” is full of holes. I will call you on your BS everytime.

 

[vancitybb]

Gotta love that headline: "$20k in drugs"
...
Oh, it was steroids

 

[LePsyber]

Hmm
Spreading wrong information as usual
It doesn’t matter what the fuck is in the bottles you are so so wrong. Even if it your favourite beverage Justin Trudeau’s sperm,
If it’s labeled tren
Guess what you are guilty
Selling drugs labelled as drugs with no active ingredient, you are still guilty. There is zero defense.

No different than selling any other drugs to an undercover even if it’s bunk

Grow up. That's point #1.
Point #2. YES, they've broken the law as I've clearly listed. I was only saying that the bust is very very small. I take people's opinions on here at value and people are saying the REAL value of what that bust was is like 10-20k. The Burlington PD are making it look like they just took down the godfather of steroid distribution when it really is a small bust. That is ALL I was saying.

I've never been involved in AAS policing so I only am applying traditional sense in that if you're being charged and tried with transporting two kg of white powder, every single kg of white powder is tested. Period.

THAT'S IT. DO YOU GET IT. DO I NEED TO MAKE IT SLOOOWWER FOR YOU? EEEEASSIER?

 

[biguglynewf]

That they are.

It's like how all the cops get off from murdering a black dude they just poked 9 holes into for no reason. They say, "At the time I shot him I was afraid for my safety." How do you prove otherwise? How do you quantify risk to a jury that has to find him "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". How can a juror possibly know his "feelings of fear" and question them?
Unless there is evidence otherwise that shows the cop did illegal things, you have no other choice but find the fucking piece of shit innocent despite how shady some circumstances look.

No.... proving fraud is nothing like that at all

Wtf kind of analogy is that exactly?

 

[LePsyber]

No.... proving fraud is nothing like that at all

Wtf kind of analogy is that exactly?

I mean they use all sorts of words that the jury/judge can't quantify.

I'm not comparing scope, I'm comparing how a good defence lawyer will make everything.

 

[gondar1]

“Seldom do people think that they can go to jail for selling a few allergy pills as ecstasy or a bag of flower as cocaine. It’s a common misconception that simply selling products you can get at the grocery store can land you in trouble with the law. The reality is, if you sell any item that you’re trying to pass off as an illegal drug, it is still illegal. In fact, you could be facing both provincial and federal charges for your actions.”

There it is
Spent almost zero time researching it.

@LePsyber you have zero credibility. You lie, your “info” is full of holes. I will call you on your BS everytime.

Yeah that's a better wording of what I was trying to say I saw in my post above, flour(or?) in the package but presented to the buyer(LEO) as blow, jailed for equivalent to what he would of gotten if it was blow is what he said.

 

[3ml]

Grow up. That's point #1.
Point #2. YES, they've broken the law as I've clearly listed. I was only saying that the bust is very very small. I take people's opinions on here at value and people are saying the REAL value of what that bust was is like 10-20k. The Burlington PD are making it look like they just took down the godfather of steroid distribution when it really is a small bust. That is ALL I was saying.

I've never been involved in AAS policing so I only am applying traditional sense in that if you're being charged and tried with transporting two kg of white powder, every single kg of white powder is tested. Period.

THAT'S IT. DO YOU GET IT. DO I NEED TO MAKE IT SLOOOWWER FOR YOU? EEEEASSIER?

You are so out to lunch

 

[3ml]

Grow up. That's point #1.
Point #2. YES, they've broken the law as I've clearly listed. I was only saying that the bust is very very small. I take people's opinions on here at value and people are saying the REAL value of what that bust was is like 10-20k. The Burlington PD are making it look like they just took down the godfather of steroid distribution when it really is a small bust. That is ALL I was saying.

I've never been involved in AAS policing so I only am applying traditional sense in that if you're being charged and tried with transporting two kg of white powder, every single kg of white powder is tested. Period.

THAT'S IT. DO YOU GET IT. DO I NEED TO MAKE IT SLOOOWWER FOR YOU? EEEEASSIER?

“I mean they could have clipped him quickly and without a real investigation if he was criminally stupid but still, the cost of the courts with the crown involved? They'll have to bring in steroid specialists to testify about each compound. Each compound will probably have to be tested or the defence could say there's nothing more than oil in the bottles they didn't test. It has total fucking disaster written on it because it's a very rare occurrence. It'll be financial black hole for taxpayers to prosecute that guy.

Wrong
and I love how you missed my whole point as you usually do. Your arguments never hold water because you can’t ever reply to rebuttals, you just fire off a whole bunch more nonsense.

Anyhow you are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Never mind telling me to grow up. I will call bullshit when I see it and 99pct of your posts are nothing more than bullshit.

Like I said it could be anything in the bottle but the fact that it’s labelled tren is enough to convict.

Surprised such a super cop didn’t know that.
But you are probably lying about that.

 

[LePsyber]

Yeah that's a better wording of what I was trying to say I saw in my post above, flour(or?) in the package but presented to the buyer(LEO) as blow, jailed for equivalent to what he would of gotten if it was blow is what he said.

I wasn't speaking about soliciting. I was talking about transporting.

QUOTE:

" I've never been involved in AAS policing so I only am applying traditional sense in that if you're being charged and tried with transporting two kg of white powder, every single kg of white powder is tested. Period. "

 

[3ml]

I wasn't speaking about soliciting. I was talking about transporting.

QUOTE:

" I've never been involved in AAS policing so I only am applying traditional sense in that if you're being charged and tried with transporting two kg of white powder, every single kg of white powder is tested. Period. "

I find it very strange
You talk about policing constantly.
First off I don’t think you have the mental capacity to be a cop.
My point is though, not many people on boards mention their occupation very often. Almost never to be honest. I know @Sorbate talks about being a butcher but I’ve also been on the boards with him for a spell.

So I’m almost wondering If you bring it up constantly as one of your troll/agitator tactics.
Because honestly I’d bet the vast majority of member don’t give a rats ass about your so called policing.

 

[LePsyber]

I find it very strange
You talk about policing constantly.
First off I don’t think you have the mental capacity to be a cop.
My point is though, not many people on boards mention their occupation very often. Almost never to be honest. I know @Sorbate talks about being a butcher but I’ve also been on the boards with him for a spell.

So I’m almost wondering If you bring it up constantly as one of your troll/agitator tactics.
Because honestly I’d bet the vast majority of member don’t give a rats ass about your so called policing.

Okay seriiously.

Can we get over the bullshit? I took an hour of immaturity to inject some stupid humor because I'm sick of the bullshit.

I originally saw someone ask a law-related question, and replied saying what I had done. It does not make me a lawyer or really any specialist on anything much more than things I encountered which were mostly highway and family related. Investigations get done by investigators and the only thing I really investigated was chasing people the court wanted back because they hadn't shown when they should have or they did something they said they wouldn't do when they agreed to bail. It was repeated what I did and people went nuts over it thinking I was something I am not now.

I am NOT a lawyer and can only tell you from experience what I encountered and experienced.

I'm just a man who did something in a past life and now does something else part time.

None of this is important though. I'm not going to try to worm my way through the Criminal Code with anybody now because I'm seeing things from a different angle than you are and I think we can both agree that neither of our compasses is pointing in the same direction.

I came to this site because I was having health problems. My doctor who rocked, retired and I got a new one who went a little crazy with the TRT so I got more than I think he intended. I had done AAS for a ton of my main career but had cut way back before going right off at a certain point and slimmed down. I cannot survive a real life without TRT though so I got it and it was fine with doc 1, got more than intended with doc 2 and found how how really fucked up I had been living because life came back. I thought some shit had just gone wrong with age but it was bullshit. It was because my T is way low and it goat fucked the hell out of me.

And then doc 2 went out of business somehow leaving me with going to doc 3 who cut my TRT in half and pow I went back to shitville again. So I came here looking for advice and maybe some help.

I got here and found that I had been missing some other things. Discussions on stuff. So I've been posting.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND> After the end of today, I have posted exactly 1(ONE) post with some bait in it. Nothing else. Not one other post has been meant to be turned into a ultra competitive uber political battle of wills and minds. I HATE THAT SHIT. I also hate like I'm having my opinion punched in when I'm just trying to be part of a community. That is ALL I am trying to achieve here but you won't let me. Everything I do, everywhere I go, you and then Superbeast right behind you come in and shit on everything I say or do.

You know, you could message me if you didn't like how I was USING CAPS or anything else. I'm a logical man. On another forum I post in, that's how people post. You could have just msg'd me "Hey dude, maybe just go to lowercase, people be happy and POW I'd be lower case." But everything just became an attack. And then you found out what I did and BAM it was an attack. And then posts that I was hoping to just talk about got turned into political battles and yet more attacks. I'm really and truly...not into the attacks. I just want to read some stuff and post here or there without being harassed or attacked.

I'M TOO OLD FOR THIS SHIT! Seriously. I just want to relax and discuss the odd thing. I DO NOT post troll material. I'm sorry if you think I am but maybe if you didn't see that every topic had to have a left and a right side, maybe you'd see I'm not looking for battles.

Nobody benefits from this. I'm tired of feeling like I have to stick up for myself and I'm sure you must be tired of chasing every thing I post for whatever reasons. I'm not into this. I just am not into this.

 

[Funnyman]

“I mean they could have clipped him quickly and without a real investigation if he was criminally stupid but still, the cost of the courts with the crown involved? They'll have to bring in steroid specialists to testify about each compound. Each compound will probably have to be tested or the defence could say there's nothing more than oil in the bottles they didn't test. It has total fucking disaster written on it because it's a very rare occurrence. It'll be financial black hole for taxpayers to prosecute that guy.

Wrong
and I love how you missed my whole point as you usually do. Your arguments never hold water because you can’t ever reply to rebuttals, you just fire off a whole bunch more nonsense.

Anyhow you are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Never mind telling me to grow up. I will call bullshit when I see it and 99pct of your posts are nothing more than bullshit.

Like I said it could be anything in the bottle but the fact that it’s labelled tren is enough to convict.

Surprised such a super cop didn’t know that.
But you are probably lying about that.

Yep they need to test the stuff.

My friend worked in records, a good old government job.

The steroid case was dropper since all the stuff was fake haha, total waste of money.

 

[3ml]

Yep they need to test the stuff.

My friend worked in records, a good old government job.

The steroid case was dropper since all the stuff was fake haha, total waste of money.

It’s very common to test these substances yes. That is normal.

However if it is sold with the intention of being steroids, it doesn’t absolve you from the crime if it’s fake. I’d love to know more about that specific case, where charges were dropped