Total vs. free testosterone in the body. What is the difference and what impacts muscle growth/how you feel?

[Goldenrod]

I have been delving into this topic mostly because I like Primo so much and my total test on TRT is in the high end of the norm but even 50-100 mg of Primo a week (over an extended period) will increase my free testosterone 3-4 times the top of the range. Is this good, bad or ugly?
I love Primo, it makes me feel good, small incremental increases in muscle mass/strength you tend to keep, and a boost in libido. All good while only helping my blood markers like lymphocyte count by a small margin while all others are not impacted (minus the hormones).
Total test is the total amount of test available in the blood but often doctors don't look at free test and only look at total test which makes it very easy to get a TRT script. That is how I got my first TRT script - no LH, no SHBG, no estrogen - just total test, tested twice.

What I find interesting and have read a few times is, "The possibility of excessive bondage means that it is possible to have normal levels of total testosterone but still have insufficient free testosterone to perform its essential functions. Too little free testosterone can lead to poor muscle development, irritability, lowered sex drive and a host of other issues that one may not readily associate with too little free testosterone." So how important is free test for sex drive and muscular development?

This post is meant as a discussion. Further, just info I have read and discussed with others.

Bioavailable Testosterone​

Until recently, free testosterone was the only type considered biologically active. It turns out, however, that the portion of the hormone bound to serum albumin tends to become available in the capillary bed. Therefore, non-SHBG-bound testosterone is also deemed as “bioavailable.”


One way of looking at bioavailable testosterone is that it is like a reserve supply, ready for use when the body is low on free testosterone. However, scientists still don’t know how much bioavailable testosterone goes on to be absorbed by cells in these conditions.

Further - copy and paste:

"How Does Free vs Total Testosterone Affect Male Health?​

Total testosterone levels have been the main indicator of a man’s health and fertility for many years.


Now, as doctors are starting to learn more about free testosterone, it is becoming apparent that the true indicators of a man’s strength and virility include both bound and unbound fractions of this hormone.


What does this all mean? Suppose that you feel symptoms of low testosterone levels, such as:

1. Poor muscle development
2. Increased irritability
3. Lowered sex drive

Then, suppose that you took a testosterone test that only accounted for the grand total testosterone levels – and it shows that you have normal total testosterone levels.

Without taking into account your free testosterone levels, your doctor may wrongly attribute these symptoms to another condition and prescribe treatment plans for said condition.

While in fact, the problem may lie in the insufficient amount of free testosterone circulating your body.

Since free testosterone is important since it helps in cell replication and bone and muscle strength, it plays a vital role in a man’s body.

If you worry about worsening sexual health, consulting your doctor to gain normal testosterone levels is recommended."

My GP and Endo who put me on TRT before both tested Total test and nothing else, I also believe most GP's don't know much about hormones but endo's?

Regardless of what I read and delve into the topic further, I will always lower my TRT dosage and add in a little Primo to have a lower total test and a higher free test number for the mental, physical, and sexual impacts. There is a lot of chatter about Primo (DHT compounds) driving down your estrogen but I have never experienced this once. I am sure it happens but not with me. It has zero impact up to 300 mg per week on my estrogen numbers. Luckily, NPP/Deca/or any test ester and DHT drug has zero impact on my estrogen. It is always right in the middle of the range as is my prolactin. Keep in mind a blast is 150 mg of test E, 100-150 mg of Primo or NPP, 2 IU of script HGH and maybe some 1 ML of Iona-Gen per day.

I am very interested in some of the experiences and big brains on this forum. Nothing will change my mind about a high free test number based on how I feel when it is higher but I am curious other's opinion on mood, sex drive, muscle building increases, etc.

thanks,
GR

 

[CosmicJuiceBoxx]

My test level was coming in at 300ng/dl [ref range is 280 to 1000, he kept insisting "I was in range" I kept insisting "It isnt optimal"]
And my free test was 229 pmol.
[Ref range is 175 - 700] for 4 tests.
Got my trt script for 100mg/wk. Im now
405ng/dl total test, have not checked E2 once as he says it isnt important and also havent checked free again. I do not feel spectacular and he believes the 100 ng/dl increase in total is sufficient. Going in for another blood test in 3 wks, Im going to tick off the free test box myself and see where it is at myself.
Ive been having some prostate issues now and he says I may have to simply just come off. I dont know the extent of how much E2 can effect the prostate but I know it can.
This is what happens when a GP does trt. Im pretty annoyed to be honest.
I had a post recently about kidney pain. Apparently not fully voiding your bladder can cause recurrent UTI and that has been my issue. Getting somewhere with it but Im not wanting to come off as Im suuuure now that being on TRT for over 2 yrs Ill be under 300ng/dl.
RELATED TO THE TOPIC, if I added primo would It just piss off my prostate more?
I dont wake up to piss a ton. But the frequency and urgency during the day is annoying. Its mostly when the infection flares due to improper voiding.
Crap situation. WWYD Golden?
Edit- prostate has been sort of a minor issue for almost the full duration or TRT as well even at only 100mg. Which when @Sorbate said find the cause of recurrent UTI's - Well I just did about a week ago. Urine not fully passed.

 

[Sorbate]

My test level was coming in at 300ng/dl [ref range is 280 to 1000, he kept insisting "I was in range" I kept insisting "It isnt optimal"]
And my free test was 229 pmol.
[Ref range is 175 - 700] for 4 tests.
Got my trt script for 100mg/wk. Im now
405ng/dl total test, have not checked E2 once as he says it isnt important and also havent checked free again. I do not feel spectacular and he believes the 100 ng/dl increase in total is sufficient. Going in for another blood test in 3 wks, Im going to tick off the free test box myself and see where it is at myself.
Ive been having some prostate issues now and he says I may have to simply just come off. I dont know the extent of how much E2 can effect the prostate but I know it can.
This is what happens when a GP does trt. Im pretty annoyed to be honest.
I had a post recently about kidney pain. Apparently not fully voiding your bladder can cause recurrent UTI and that has been my issue. Getting somewhere with it but Im not wanting to come off as Im suuuure now that being on TRT for over 2 yrs Ill be under 300ng/dl.
RELATED TO THE TOPIC, if I added primo would It just piss off my prostate more?
I dont wake up to piss a ton. But the frequency and urgency during the day is annoying. Its mostly when the infection flares due to improper voiding.
Crap situation. WWYD Golden?
Edit- prostate has been sort of a minor issue for almost the full duration or TRT as well even at only 100mg. Which when @Sorbate said find the cause of recurrent UTI's - Well I just did about a week ago. Urine not fully passed.

Take 5 mg daily cialis for as long as you can handle the heartburn. That will greatly help with the prostate issues likely.

You could have have prostate growth that you had no symptoms from the blasting and now it has just caught up. I kinda had that issue. Took daily cialis for a few months (I only take as needed now) and the flow issues hasn’t come back so far.

 

[CosmicJuiceBoxx]

Take 5 mg daily cialis for as long as you can handle the heartburn. That will greatly help with the prostate issues likely.

You could have have prostate growth that you had no symptoms from the blasting and now it has just caught up. I kinda had that issue. Took daily cialis for a few months (I only take as needed now) and the flow issues hasn’t come back so far.

Can you use primobolan? Or other DHT derived steroids? (Anavar specifically as its likely the only DHT I would use orally. Perhaps Tbol)

 

[Sorbate]

Can you use primobolan? Or other DHT derived steroids? (Anavar specifically as its likely the only DHT I would use orally. Perhaps Tbol)

Primo and mast can aggravate prostate issues from the dht.

 

[Goldenrod]

My test level was coming in at 300ng/dl [ref range is 280 to 1000, he kept insisting "I was in range" I kept insisting "It isnt optimal"]
And my free test was 229 pmol.
[Ref range is 175 - 700] for 4 tests.
Got my trt script for 100mg/wk. Im now
405ng/dl total test, have not checked E2 once as he says it isnt important and also havent checked free again. I do not feel spectacular and he believes the 100 ng/dl increase in total is sufficient. Going in for another blood test in 3 wks, Im going to tick off the free test box myself and see where it is at myself.
Ive been having some prostate issues now and he says I may have to simply just come off. I dont know the extent of how much E2 can effect the prostate but I know it can.
This is what happens when a GP does trt. Im pretty annoyed to be honest.
I had a post recently about kidney pain. Apparently not fully voiding your bladder can cause recurrent UTI and that has been my issue. Getting somewhere with it but Im not wanting to come off as Im suuuure now that being on TRT for over 2 yrs Ill be under 300ng/dl.
RELATED TO THE TOPIC, if I added primo would It just piss off my prostate more?
I dont wake up to piss a ton. But the frequency and urgency during the day is annoying. Its mostly when the infection flares due to improper voiding.
Crap situation. WWYD Golden?
Edit- prostate has been sort of a minor issue for almost the full duration or TRT as well even at only 100mg. Which when @Sorbate said find the cause of recurrent UTI's - Well I just did about a week ago. Urine not fully passed.

DHT drugs are more apt to impact your prostate - Primo may be a little less than Masteron but that is debateable. Any DHT drug - did the doctor send you for a PSA test and do a rectal exam? Not fun but necessary to determine if it is enlarged as PSA tests are notoriously unreliable but we still do them. If am not dispensing medical advice so keep that in mind but I can talk the doctor's lingo. If a benign inflammation they may give you finasteride or dustasteride - whole other set of sides for some. I am fine with finasteride but that is for hair. I use primo and never had a prostate issue and Sorbs and I are of of similar age. He blasted a lot heavier and with much more potent compounds than I did though.
If you can't empty you bladder, there are a myriad of reasons for this and I would suggest looking them up and taking them in for a heart to heart with a doctor or get sent to a urologist. If your doctor won't do that - I would get very ascertive and explain law suits and my experience with them and knowledge of hormones.
In two weeks, and still never diagnosed I dropped about 18 lbs because I could not stop urinating and I mean massive amounts - exact opposite of you and I was sent to a urologist and internal medicine specialist. It finally settled down and I don't touch diuretics nor did I change my fluid or diet.
The body is weird and you can't put everyone in the same box. Sure it could be the test and you can't handle it but if you life is miserable without it and it isn't causing cancer as we will all have prostate issues at some point, then I would be reaching for supplements first, retest, if no better then go for the script. I prefer New Chapters 5XL but there are others that are good. The main ingredient is typically saw palmetto. Selenium, zinc, and beta-sitosterol - are known to help but it depends on the person.
If my doctor just cut me off, I would never be beligerant with a doc as it gets you no where but he wouldn't be leaving the room until I said what I need to say. If low testosterone is impacting your life in a myriad of ways (negative) then more explanaton is required.
Sorby already mentioned cialis - never used it but I am generally fine in that area. If I thought I wasn't, I would have my doc (even though they don't like touching people anymore) stick their finger up there and find out if there are lumps, is it swollen or is it something else. At this point it is guess work. Worst case scenario would be a biopsi - @Bagua may have something to add as he is knowledgeble in medical areas.
Make your doctor your friend if you can and they will be more apt to help you. They have a play book and use it unless you get a real good one. They are trained to look for horses first and then zeebras.

Again - not medical advice but what I would do. I see it in all my books and it is cheap - pumpin seeds can easily be put in a bag and much on, they taste good, are good for you, and they are known to help. Have a quick read on google and you will find lots of literature. If it's bad - fuck the supplements, take the medication and make sure the doctor doesn't just kick you out the door. Have a follow up date planned with the nurse on the way out. I often say my doctor wants to see me in two weeks wether they say it or not. I don't have a doc now but when I did they were both excellent.

UTI infections can lead to kidney issues and you don't want that - not always but it can and that means being at the ER hooked up to IV medication unless they give you a bag of leviquin and send you on your way with a script as the oral bioavailabilty of that medication is astounding and is 'almost' as good by a few % as IV.

Good luck

 

[CosmicJuiceBoxx]

Primo and mast can aggravate prostate issues from the dht.

But since yours has clears up with the 5mg daily C's, have you used and DHTs?
Was the onset of flare up pretty quick or is there still a chance for me to use Primo.
I got a few vials of Genetec DHB and Im thinking that's right off the table because from what users are saying it's like a triple potent primo.

 

[CosmicJuiceBoxx]

DHT drugs are more apt to impact your prostate - Primo may be a little less than Masteron but that is debateable. Any DHT drug - did the doctor send you for a PSA test and do a rectal exam? Not fun but necessary to determine if it is enlarged as PSA tests are notoriously unreliable but we still do them. If am not dispensing medical advice so keep that in mind but I can talk the doctor's lingo. If a benign inflammation they may give you finasteride or dustasteride - whole other set of sides for some. I am fine with finasteride but that is for hair. I use primo and never had a prostate issue and Sorbs and I are of of similar age. He blasted a lot heavier and with much more potent compounds than I did though.
If you can't empty you bladder, there are a myriad of reasons for this and I would suggest looking them up and taking them in for a heart to heart with a doctor or get sent to a urologist. If your doctor won't do that - I would get very ascertive and explain law suits and my experience with them and knowledge of hormones.
In two weeks, and still never diagnosed I dropped about 18 lbs because I could not stop urinating and I mean massive amounts - exact opposite of you and I was sent to a urologist and internal medicine specialist. It finally settled down and I don't touch diuretics nor did I change my fluid or diet.
The body is weird and you can't put everyone in the same box. Sure it could be the test and you can't handle it but if you life is miserable without it and it isn't causing cancer as we will all have prostate issues at some point, then I would be reaching for supplements first, retest, if no better then go for the script. I prefer New Chapters 5XL but there are others that are good. The main ingredient is typically saw palmetto. Selenium, zinc, and beta-sitosterol - are known to help but it depends on the person.
If my doctor just cut me off, I would never be beligerant with a doc as it gets you no where but he wouldn't be leaving the room until I said what I need to say. If low testosterone is impacting your life in a myriad of ways (negative) then more explanaton is required.
Sorby already mentioned cialis - never used it but I am generally fine in that area. If I thought I wasn't, I would have my doc (even though they don't like touching people anymore) stick their finger up there and find out if there are lumps, is it swollen or is it something else. At this point it is guess work. Worst case scenario would be a biopsi - @Bagua may have something to add as he is knowledgeble in medical areas.
Make your doctor your friend if you can and they will be more apt to help you. They have a play book and use it unless you get a real good one. They are trained to look for horses first and then zeebras.

Again - not medical advice but what I would do. I see it in all my books and it is cheap - pumpin seeds can easily be put in a bag and much on, they taste good, are good for you, and they are known to help. Have a quick read on google and you will find lots of literature. If it's bad - fuck the supplements, take the medication and make sure the doctor doesn't just kick you out the door. Have a follow up date planned with the nurse on the way out. I often say my doctor wants to see me in two weeks wether they say it or not. I don't have a doc now but when I did they were both excellent.

UTI infections can lead to kidney issues and you don't want that - not always but it can and that means being at the ER hooked up to IV medication unless they give you a bag of leviquin and send you on your way with a script as the oral bioavailabilty of that medication is astounding and is 'almost' as good by a few % as IV.

Good luck

He did do the digit exam, and youre right, he was certainly in a hurry about it which made it much less "enjoyable" but I can certainly think of worse things.
The safety guy here on a shut down last fall had prostatecancer and he just went right for the full prostectomy and said he wish he knew the side effects of that before hand BUT theres no chance of the cancer coming back.
I did get a requisition for PSA & Kidneys. Anything else I should tick off on the box you can think of.
I appreciate having a family doctor but honestly this guy has let me down so many times in so many ways and finding a new one is a bit difficult right now in Calgary.
My last PSA result was 0.7
Ive been reading on the Prostate Artery Embolisms, juuuust incase.
But certainly hoping for other avenues.

 

[Goldenrod]

But since yours has clears up with the 5mg daily C's, have you used and DHTs?
Was the onset of flare up pretty quick or is there still a chance for me to use Primo.
I got a few vials of Genetec DHB and Im thinking that's right off the table because from what users are saying it's like a triple potent primo.

I would avoid DHB but that is because I am conservative and watch my liver carefully. It can impact your prostate and increase liver weight. At least from reading - not first hand knowledge. I won't lie to you. I stick to the PED's I consider safer in low doses - test of any ester, primo, and the odd mini cycle of deca or NPP which is not the norm (especially with Deca) but I don't care. I am about to hand up the deca/NPP and stick with low dose test and Primo. I am referring to 100/100 or 100/150 max. I might mix in some peptides I consider benign, script HGH.
Always remember doctors are paid by the Gov't and they are paid by taxes so we pay for them. They need to listen, think, and come up a game plan that meets with what you are comfortable with.
PSA and Kidney tests are always great but I always check of CBC because it provides valuable feedback and you can add it to your own medical file. Get a copy of every test done, write down what you were eating, doing different, and taking while the test was being done. Without feedback to recall on, you won't be able to make correlations that a doctor may not have time to do or simply doesn't do. Not all docs have the same care, intelligence, or practical experience.
I always ask for liver tests - ALT, ALP, AST, and GGT - simply because I had liver issues prior - never had a doctor say no but I back up every request with a reason and the fact that I don't have a doctor adds to the need for taking your health into your own hands.

Hope this subsides - good luck.

 

[Bigbear]

I would avoid DHB but that is because I am conservative and watch my liver carefully. It can impact your prostate and increase liver weight. At least from reading - not first hand knowledge. I won't lie to you. I stick to the PED's I consider safer in low doses - test of any ester, primo, and the odd mini cycle of deca or NPP which is not the norm (especially with Deca) but I don't care. I am about to hand up the deca/NPP and stick with low dose test and Primo. I am referring to 100/100 or 100/150 max. I might mix in some peptides I consider benign, script HGH.
Always remember doctors are paid by the Gov't and they are paid by taxes so we pay for them. They need to listen, think, and come up a game plan that meets with what you are comfortable with.
PSA and Kidney tests are always great but I always check of CBC because it provides valuable feedback and you can add it to your own medical file. Get a copy of every test done, write down what you were eating, doing different, and taking while the test was being done. Without feedback to recall on, you won't be able to make correlations that a doctor may not have time to do or simply doesn't do. Not all docs have the same care, intelligence, or practical experience.
I always ask for liver tests - ALT, ALP, AST, and GGT - simply because I had liver issues prior - never had a doctor say no but I back up every request with a reason and the fact that I don't have a doctor adds to the need for taking your health into your own hands.

Hope this subsides - good luck.

Do you prefer low dose test with low dose primo over just booting your test up to like 500mg a week? Or the equivalent such as 150 test +150 primo vs 300 test

 

[Sorbate]

But since yours has clears up with the 5mg daily C's, have you used and DHTs?
Was the onset of flare up pretty quick or is there still a chance for me to use Primo.
I got a few vials of Genetec DHB and Im thinking that's right off the table because from what users are saying it's like a triple potent primo.

Ok little history.

My first serioys cycle of dbol and test, I could actually feel that my prostate had gotten larger because when I jumped down hard, I could feel it, or riding my motorcycle I could feel it press from the seat. No urine issues though. I ignore it, figured just one of the sides of blasting, well because nothing is free, lol.

I took time off on trt for like 6 months after

Then I started to run primo instead, now 500 mg a week of primo with 200 test. Now after about 4 weeks, sometimes it would be more difficult to urinate, but I was having colon issues from the diverticulosis then, and chalked it up to inflamation from my colon which spread to my bladder and so on. Now it was intermittent. So one time, good flow, few times much harder to pee. Now it wasn’t really bad, but I noticed the reduced flow, like maybe 40%. But it came and went, like 60% reduced 40% of the time flowed better. Like I said thought it was something to do with my guts screwing things up. Ignored it.

Once back to just test at lower dosage after a month or two, would go back to normal.

Had my guts fixed, took primo again, came back, then I dud some research and realized it was from the primo. So I saw that cialis can reduce prostate volume, took 5 mg daily, after a few days, no issues. Kept taking cialis until I just didn’t enjoy the slight daily at night heartburn.

Mast is far worse than primo for me.

I have done some huge test blasts with high tren, no prostate issues, ran high test with a generous dose of deca, no issues.

Ok that being said, I am not saying that x amount of test over the course of a cycle won’t cause some prostate growth, and for me likely it’s just not showing sides, but still happens.

So you keep agrivating it and eventually you get to a position where it started to give sides.

Kinda like gyno, you aggravate it, then you are more susceptible to gyno in the future.

So I had a thought process. Since I knew it would go away with cialis, Iwas pretty sure it wasn’t a serious isse, just hormone related from gear useage (over trt). So like what I did with my gyno, I stopped any drugs that inflamed it, reduced my test to trt or not much higher for a very long time, like a year plus.

My gyno shrank away, and I havn’t had any future issues, but if I use deca, only 100 mg at most to stay under sides, just enough for old man joint relief.

As far as primo, right now, I’m going to do what I did with my gyno, just stay away from higher doses of test (not over 200 a week) no primo or dht’s and let nature take care of thing. I have been doing that for months now and my flow is back to perfect. I don’t get the odd prostate cramp anymore, (like once every month maybe on primo, I’d be peeing and get a pretty good cramp, but if I “sucked” in like stopping you flow after the cramp would stop and relax. It didn’t occur often and only when I was running a dht, so I knew what it was and not cancer, it was hormone related. Never had pain when blowing my load though.

So I had the exam, had a psa, all was good.

My thought is, you just need to give it time to go back to a better size. Constant gear abuse will swell it, some of us are more sensitive. Take your daily cialis for a couple months and see what happens. Keep your test at trt, nothing else. If your issues go away, you know what it is, if it does not then explore further. With cialis I find I know within a few days, week at most.

So if it reduces and your issues are gone, take a good 6 months or more of just trt, or 200 mg a week after a good couple months. Let your prostate rest and let it’s sensitivity to the extra hormones reset. My thought process on this is like a nerve that gets aggravated, you need to rest it so it calms down to normal again, if you go back to fast, even if it feels normal, you will easily trigger it again.

As I said, I did this with my gyno, and have zero gyno issues now and the mass is completely gone. I am doing that for my prostate right now, and my weird occasional sides are gone and I have zero flow issues.

Then once you have figured it out, avoid the stuff that inflames it. Honestly none of the extra shit we take (other than maybe dbol and tren) really don’t add much more in all honesty. So the cost isn’t worth the benefit to me. I also believe that if you keep your prostate inflamed long term like years and years, that is where you will get issues, but short term and reverting it, likely no harm, no foul.

That my 2 cents so take it for what it’s worth and run an experiment to see how you respond.

 

[Sorbate]

He did do the digit exam, and youre right, he was certainly in a hurry about it which made it much less "enjoyable" but I can certainly think of worse things.
The safety guy here on a shut down last fall had prostatecancer and he just went right for the full prostectomy and said he wish he knew the side effects of that before hand BUT theres no chance of the cancer coming back.
I did get a requisition for PSA & Kidneys. Anything else I should tick off on the box you can think of.
I appreciate having a family doctor but honestly this guy has let me down so many times in so many ways and finding a new one is a bit difficult right now in Calgary.
My last PSA result was 0.7
Ive been reading on the Prostate Artery Embolisms, juuuust incase.
But certainly hoping for other avenues.

Oh and what issues are you having?

 

[CosmicJuiceBoxx]

Oh and what issues are you having?

Just the reduced flow mostly. But again due to the inability to fully empty bladder it now leaves me prone to UTI and that too can cause infection to spread to prostate, kidneys and bladder.
Sometimes I will go pee and then 30 minutes later, need to pee, again 45.mins later need to pee. Not even large volumes, just like "holy fuck I gotta pee and pee within 2 mins".
No other real issues but when he did his finger poke he said its enlarged but I cant remmeber what he compared it to. Still sounded small.
When it flares bad, Ill have to piss 5 times a night and sometimes itll take 3 or more minutes just to get it out. And trust me.. with that flow rate shit can get messy in the dark. DM me to continue, I don't want to hijack GR's thread!
@Goldenrod thank you for the very helpful pointers and support. I apprecaite you & your experience.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

Take 5 mg daily cialis for as long as you can handle the heartburn.

On the advice of @Goldenrod I've been taking Licorice Root to lower my testosterone (I'm attempting to get script TRT). As I dove into a bit of research on the subject, I found a lot of info on how Licorice Root helps with digestive and heartburn. If I remember correctly, you're on TRT, so you wouldn't have to worry about a drop in T levels. However, if it is a concern you can get Licorice Root supplements that don't contain glycyrrhizic acid, the active component of licorice, which interferes with hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, which catalyzes the conversion of androstenedione to testosterone.

I will say that my gut has felt better since taking it, It may be worth a try?

Here is what I'm taking.


and (both probably not needed, ordered 2 out of curiosity)


Here is a product that I believe contains no glycyrrhizic acid




edit: can't seem to post amazon links anymore.

 

[Sorbate]

Just the reduced flow mostly. But again due to the inability to fully empty bladder it now leaves me prone to UTI and that too can cause infection to spread to prostate, kidneys and bladder.
Sometimes I will go pee and then 30 minutes later, need to pee, again 45.mins later need to pee. Not even large volumes, just like "holy fuck I gotta pee and pee within 2 mins".
No other real issues but when he did his finger poke he said its enlarged but I cant remmeber what he compared it to. Still sounded small.
When it flares bad, Ill have to piss 5 times a night and sometimes itll take 3 or more minutes just to get it out. And trust me.. with that flow rate shit can get messy in the dark. DM me to continue, I don't want to hijack GR's thread!
@Goldenrod thank you for the very helpful pointers and support. I apprecaite you & your experience.

That other than the UTI was what was happening to me. 5 mg daily cialis did the trick. Once it reduces in volume you can stop the cialis and when it comes back take it again. Easy fix likely.

I was going to DM but I believe the cialis will work and we already did a full blown derail, lol.

 

[Goldenrod]

On the advice of @Goldenrod I've been taking Licorice Root to lower my testosterone (I'm attempting to get script TRT). As I dove into a bit of research on the subject, I found a lot of info on how Licorice Root helps with digestive and heartburn. If I remember correctly, you're on TRT, so you wouldn't have to worry about a drop in T levels. However, if it is a concern you can get Licorice Root supplements that don't contain glycyrrhizic acid, the active component of licorice, which interferes with hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, which catalyzes the conversion of androstenedione to testosterone.

I will say that my gut has felt better since taking it, It may be worth a try?

Here is what I'm taking.


and (both probably not needed, ordered 2 out of curiosity)


Here is a product that I believe contains no glycyrrhizic acid




edit: can't seem to post amazon links anymore.

it is also an excellent protectant for your liver - I don't take it that often due to HBP issues that can arise but it is a great addition. If it works for you please send me a PM or post because there is contradictory studies and they aren't large but it was staggering the difference in one of them. Massive drop in testosterone.

 

[Goldenrod]

Do you prefer low dose test with low dose primo over just booting your test up to like 500mg a week? Or the equivalent such as 150 test +150 primo vs 300 test

Yes and no - I never take 500 mg of test - most I ever take is 250 and that is a blast. In my early days of 8 week cycles, I might hit 400-500 for one week and then taper down. There was no CB or CJM to advice you really need to take it for 4 months to see major differences and the availability of Primo was nil where I lived. This going back a few decades when working security and everyone tapered up and down due to the lack of PCT meds.
Back then I would fuck a tree so I never noticed any sexual side effects coming off.
I would always pick 50 mg of test and 50 mg of Primo over 100 test for TRT every time. Primo may have positive health benefits and an incredibly low androgenic rating. I love the stuff with the the exception of long term use may can cause hair loss if you are predisposed to that issue. My best dose is 100-150 if I am ramping it up a little which is nothing compared to what others take.

Right now I am taking around 100-125 test enanthate and 50-75 Primo (I don't get caught up on one notch on the needle - I just do my best and pin it. From the reading I have done there are more benefits than negatives but I don't think everyone should run out and get it. Research and this is not medical advice.
It is just one of my favorite PED's for a myriad of reasons.

 

[aGuyFromWinnipeg]

it is also an excellent protectant for your liver - I don't take it that often due to HBP issues that can arise but it is a great addition. If it works for you please send me a PM or post because there is contradictory studies and they aren't large but it was staggering the difference in one of them. Massive drop in testosterone.

Yes, some studies claim a 26-30% decrease in total test after 10 days of treatment. It will be tough to tell on my bloods as I don't have a base, I'll post my blood results, regardless.

 

[5-8%advantage]

My test level was coming in at 300ng/dl [ref range is 280 to 1000, he kept insisting "I was in range" I kept insisting "It isnt optimal"]
And my free test was 229 pmol.
[Ref range is 175 - 700] for 4 tests.
Got my trt script for 100mg/wk. Im now
405ng/dl total test, have not checked E2 once as he says it isnt important and also havent checked free again. I do not feel spectacular and he believes the 100 ng/dl increase in total is sufficient. Going in for another blood test in 3 wks, Im going to tick off the free test box myself and see where it is at myself.
Ive been having some prostate issues now and he says I may have to simply just come off. I dont know the extent of how much E2 can effect the prostate but I know it can.
This is what happens when a GP does trt. Im pretty annoyed to be honest.
I had a post recently about kidney pain. Apparently not fully voiding your bladder can cause recurrent UTI and that has been my issue. Getting somewhere with it but Im not wanting to come off as Im suuuure now that being on TRT for over 2 yrs Ill be under 300ng/dl.
RELATED TO THE TOPIC, if I added primo would It just piss off my prostate more?
I dont wake up to piss a ton. But the frequency and urgency during the day is annoying. Its mostly when the infection flares due to improper voiding.
Crap situation. WWYD Golden?
Edit- prostate has been sort of a minor issue for almost the full duration or TRT as well even at only 100mg. Which when @Sorbate said find the cause of recurrent UTI's - Well I just did about a week ago. Urine not fully passed.

@CosmicJuiceBoxx are you west coast or east coast?
You definitely need a better TRT doc.
If by chance your in BC I’d highly recommend my clinic

 

[Bigbear]

Yes and no - I never take 500 mg of test - most I ever take is 250 and that is a blast. In my early days of 8 week cycles, I might hit 400-500 for one week and then taper down. There was no CB or CJM to advice you really need to take it for 4 months to see major differences and the availability of Primo was nil where I lived. This going back a few decades when working security and everyone tapered up and down due to the lack of PCT meds.
Back then I would fuck a tree so I never noticed any sexual side effects coming off.
I would always pick 50 mg of test and 50 mg of Primo over 100 test for TRT every time. Primo may have positive health benefits and an incredibly low androgenic rating. I love the stuff with the the exception of long term use may can cause hair loss if you are predisposed to that issue. My best dose is 100-150 if I am ramping it up a little which is nothing compared to what others take.

Right now I am taking around 100-125 test enanthate and 50-75 Primo (I don't get caught up on one notch on the needle - I just do my best and pin it. From the reading I have done there are more benefits than negatives but I don't think everyone should run out and get it. Research and this is not medical advice.
It is just one of my favorite PED's for a myriad of reasons.

Yea I've always like trt plus with primo bit it was based around not wanting to use aromatase inhibitors. I know your pretty longevity minded so I wasn't sure. I'm pretty sure maybe other then primo test even at 500mg a week is one of the safer cycles.