Convince me I can take a cycle safely

[A.B]

It isn’t 100 percent necessary. Many of the old time bodybuilders never touched it and got wonderful results, but I don’t think this is ideal.

Personally yes I’d prefer everyone run it in a cycle. Heavy doses of test can be great but that can come with unwanted sides.
Don’t forget that adding anti e in there is an additional drug and causes additional health concerns

ideally test would be used at a dose to support normal male function. There are far better steroids that build muscle with less sides

And I agree with that brother. I’m one that used deca only, eq only and learned from those mistakes. Mainly ED.
I know we’re going in circles cause yes there other shit out there way better in muscle building. I’m just one of the proponents of testosterone. And I like to see people easing into AAS cause we all get caught up and push the limits.

 

[3ml]

Because I didn't want to end up going tit for tat.

You think what you think. The majority of the bodybuilding world thinks otherwise.

The majority?
Really eh?
Do you know the percentage or are you just talking out your ass? Because I know a lot of people who are very knowledgeable who share the same stance as me

 

[3ml]

And I agree with that brother. I’m one that used deca only, eq only and learned from those mistakes. Mainly ED.
I know we’re going in circles cause yes there other shit out there way better in muscle building. I’m just one of the proponents of testosterone. And I like to see people easing into AAS cause we all get caught up and push the limits.

That was probably very common in your day

Even when I started our roughly 22 years ago
Test was considered a dirty drug and a no no.

I think we aren’t that far off in our ideas. The reason I don’t like to start a guy on the parroted 500mg of test is because they can do well off less.
I say start mild then you have room to add in the future. We all up the doses as we go. It’s the way it is. I have made a lot of mistakes along the way and trying to pass knowledge down.

 

[ABMonkey]

The majority?
Really eh?
Do you know the percentage or are you just talking out your ass? Because I know a lot of people who are very knowledgeable who share the same stance as me

OK cool, thats awesome man. Can you link me to any articles, sources, videos etc where these guys are talking about it?

 

[3ml]

OK cool, thats awesome man. Can you link me to any articles, sources, videos etc where these guys are talking about it?

I know them in person. Would you like me to get them to email you?
Just because something is on a video doesn’t make it the truth. Or unless you are one of those people that think CNN is news

 

[ABMonkey]

I know them in person. Would you like me to get them to email you?
Just because something is on a video doesn’t make it the truth. Or unless you are one of those people that think CNN is news

I know that, we are beating round the bush. I actually agree that adding primo to low dose test would make a great first cycle.

I just don't know why you insist of shitting all over the test only first cycle - 300mg of test would be a fantastic place to start.

Why are these super knowledgeable well known & respected coaches all advocating for test only cycles?

 

[3ml]

I know that, we are beating round the bush. I actually agree that adding primo to low dose test would make a great first cycle.

I just don't know why you insist of shitting all over the test only first cycle - 300mg of test would be a fantastic place to start.

Why are these super knowledgeable well known & respected coaches all advocating for test only cycles?

I don’t know man. I’ve never heard any of them talk about a test only cycle
Perhaps because it will give their client an illusion of great results right off the bat and at the end of the day that’s what coaches want so the guy sticks around.
I don’t know I don’t care. I think for myself. I do listen to other sources of information and come up with my opinion.

Shit probably the easiest way to explain why a test only cycle isn’t ideal is because your first cycle is usually your best. There is also a thing called synergy...that’s why stack stuff right. 1+1 might equal 3 or 4. Why cheat yourself out of gains?

Listen, here is the thing. I have stated many times several reasons why test only isn’t the best.

What arguments have I gotten in return

ummm aaahhhh so you know how you react to test.

because that’s what your body
produces

Coaches and you tubers suggest it

Do you not think my points have a little more thought to them?

 

[A.B]

it’s all good. People can learn from everyone’s opinions and form there own which they will probably try every angle anyways lol. Everyone’s got an opinion doesn’t change mine. I get yours. Still think my own is good- testosterone for a base- If you can’t grow off it then there is something wrong with you. Yes there are other stuff other there but there is positive and negatives to everyone of them including testosterone

 

[A.B]

To the OP sorry for slight high jack. If you are going to use something else with testosterone take advice of @3ml and hit up primo or something mild. Stay the Fck away from tren, deca, drol etc.
Good luck

 

[OntarioMuscle101]

That was probably very common in your day

Even when I started our roughly 22 years ago
Test was considered a dirty drug and a no no.

I think we aren’t that far off in our ideas. The reason I don’t like to start a guy on the parroted 500mg of test is because they can do well off less.
I say start mild then you have room to add in the future. We all up the doses as we go. It’s the way it is. I have made a lot of mistakes along the way and trying to pass knowledge down.

I agree with you on that note. One of my best friends decided on Test C way back when at only 250 mg a week. Did he ever grow. I am a big fan of less is more theory even more so as I get older. My first cycle was T400 in 10ml. It did what it was supposed to do, doing only half a ml per week. Same friend right now is running 250 Test E and 200 Primo per week and he looks incredible. He also feels fantastic. No side effects whatsoever he tells me.

 

[3ml]

To the OP sorry for slight high jack. If you are going to use something else with testosterone take advice of @3ml and hit up primo or something mild. Stay the Fck away from tren, deca, drol etc.
Good luck

If he reads it all it’s probably worth it. He will see different opinions

 

[biguglynewf]

That makes no sense
Why is it the best because our bodies produce it?

It is best at what it was designed to do. Make a male function as a male.
It is not the best for muscle building

I think most recommend test only as a first (and usually a long ester) because it’s easy, pretty much well tolerated by most and accessible.

There are other factors too that may contribute to this......like it’s usually not the most faked or underdosed product, most guys now what it is (or more so than other products), the dosing doesn’t require more than 2 shots per week and sides at reasonable dosages are pretty minimal.

So more about simplicity for the beginner than perhaps best.

I think too that there is also a proclivity by most because it’s most often said and has been for a very long time. So it’s possible that this just falls the same way as much of the parroted stuff we hear.... it’s been said over and over and it’s just accepted.

So while it may not actually be the most ideal candidate when push comes to shove, it checks the boxes and requires minimal effort and concern for a noob.

 

[A.B]

If he reads it all it’s probably worth it. He will see different opinions

I actually just had this sent to me so it’s appropriate

 

[3ml]

View attachment 6391

I actually just had this sent to me so it’s appropriate

Fuck my woman watches that show
I hate it lol!

 

[3ml]

I think most recommend test only as a first (and usually a long ester) because it’s easy, pretty much well tolerated by most and accessible.

There are other factors too that may contribute to this......like it’s usually not the most faked or underdosed product, most guys now what it is (or more so than other products), the dosing doesn’t require more than 2 shots per week and sides at reasonable dosages are pretty minimal.

So more about simplicity for the beginner than perhaps best.

I think too that there is also a proclivity by most because it’s most often said and has been for a very long time. So it’s possible that this just falls the same way as much of the parroted stuff we hear.... it’s been said over and over and it’s just accepted.

So while it may not actually be the most ideal candidate when push comes to shove, it checks the boxes and requires minimal effort and concern for a noob.

This is the best argument I’ve heard anytime I have gotten into this debate.

Simple, yes. Less likely to be fake, yes. Long Ester less shots, I can go with that.

This is what I’m talking about. These are actual reasons. Are they all good reasons??? That’s up for debate.

What my point is this has actual thought. Part of the reason I get annoyed with parrots spouting off
~Your first cycle should be 500mgs of test.
Boom!! Tada I’m the hero of the board I wrote something that has been said 5000 time’s and I’ve actually never really thought it through on why or why not this should be the default first cycle.

I’m all for different opinions and debates. But come to the fight with something.

Well said Newf!

 

[Rubicon]

Any reason you're set on 500mg? If this is your first cycle you should use less, like 250mg test, along with a bit of dbol, like 20mg/day, and your primo. If you want your hormones to bounce back I would recommend getting some HCG. Two shots per week, 250iu each, a 5000iu bottle will last you 10 weeks. You can delay the HCG until the 2nd or 3rd week, which allows you to time it such that your cycle is finished before the hcg. An AI and some nolva and you're all set. For a lighter cycle why not use aromasin? It's mildly anabolic and is better on your lipids.

Dbol isn't for savages, lol, it's a great compound, and I always felt great on it. It certainly stands out. To give you some context of not needing a lot. I had a training partner way back, decent sized guy, 6'1, 225lbs. One 6 week cycle of dbol, 25-30mg/day and that guy gained 50lbs. Believe me or not, I don't care, and I'm definitely not suggesting you can replicate those results, b/c he had fantastic genetics, was a seasoned athlete, and our training was brutal. But, even myself, my first cycle was just dbol, and I easily gained 25lbs.

I'm also not suggesting a dbol only cycle, and think you have the right idea, but if it were me I'd take less.

I think what has shyed me away from a Dbol and test cycle is to understand how one compound effects my body. I’ve also heard that Dbol gains are lost easier ( not sure if that’s true). And d boo is often taken oraly. Perhaps the amounts you suggest are not hard on the liver?

Also to clarify to all I am referring to testosterone Enanthate and testosterone Enanthate only.

 

[Rubicon]

To the OP sorry for slight high jack. If you are going to use something else with testosterone take advice of @3ml and hit up primo or something mild. Stay the Fck away from tren, deca, drol etc.
Good luck

It’s all good, it’s actually helped, more info from different people the better.

 

[Rubicon]

I posted both of those comments above before reading the whole thread and both of those things were covered lol. where I’m at right now is maybe 300-500 test e for 12 weeks. Because of what I mentioned about the Dbol being oral and a second compound, the possibility of the primo being fake, and... well just fuck tren .

I haven’t made a purchase yet but this is what I’m leaning towards. I just really want to get the PCT part dialled in before I purchase. Or atleast make sure I’m buying all the right things at the same time. Maybe I’ll start a new thread for that to inquire opinions. And I think Abmonkey or someone else may have posted a link to another thread referring to PCT for first cycle.

Thanks for the contributions, your welcome to keep posting and I’ll keep checking this thread before purchasing.

 

[resilient1]

I posted both of those comments above before reading the whole thread and both of those things were covered lol. where I’m at right now is maybe 300-500 test e for 12 weeks. Because of what I mentioned about the Dbol being oral and a second compound, the possibility of the primo being fake, and... well just fuck tren .

I haven’t made a purchase yet but this is what I’m leaning towards. I just really want to get the PCT part dialled in before I purchase. Or atleast make sure I’m buying all the right things at the same time. Maybe I’ll start a new thread for that to inquire opinions. And I think Abmonkey or someone else may have posted a link to another thread referring to PCT for first cycle.

Thanks for the contributions, your welcome to keep posting and I’ll keep checking this thread before purchasing.

I've mentioned it once already, but I believe that running a small amount of hcg from start to after the longest-ester has washed out of your system is going to help you more than if you wait until afterwards. I know some who run it exclusively afterwards, but I believe maintaining the function of the testes throughout to be more prudent than re-starting. As this is a first cycle you can likely get away with just nolva, but I wouldn't recommend it. I would want as smooth transition as possible, which will enable you to retain as much of your gains.

It would be worth your time to research the subject.

 

[Brbpuppy]

I think I mentioned above...

John Meadows
Jordan Peters
Dante Trudel
Fouad Abiads podcasts (he has a bunch of guests on)

*I've definitely missed a bunch here, thats just off the top of my head. maybe others can chime in*

Generally those are some of the most respected in this industry. You might not be able to find much from those guys on the open web talking about gear though... usually have to pay for access to their members site.

You can get a 7day free trial to trainedbyjp's app, you should be able to watch all vids and get all the info you need in those 7 days! Highly recommend.

Vigorous Steve is a solid one also.