Calf variations

Palmer1991

Palmer1991

Well-known member
Trusted Member
So I been hitting my calves pretty good lately and have seen some growth I do sitted and standing calf raises but how should my toes be pointed if I wanna focus on the inner calf side... Not the inside claf muscle like by the bone but. Like if your looking in a mirror an you see the putter calf and the inner cal so the inner calf being the part of the calf that can touch the other calf if ur legs are close together. It just doesn't seem like a big bulge when compared to the rest of my calf
 
I find calves are mostly genetics, Mine start really high up my leg. I do all exercises toes in and toes out, just to hit both parts. High reps and low reps
 
Cheapshot said:
I find calves are mostly genetics, Mine start really high up my leg. I do all exercises toes in and toes out, just to hit both parts. High reps and low reps
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Damn it, I'm really impressed with how they are growing the last few months. I finally feel like I don't have tiny calves.
But I just wanna try n add more development in that particular spot, more so then the rest. Story of every bodybuilders life eh? Lol
I'm also kinda impressed with my hamstrings. The only difference is I stopped using the machine leg curl and started using the cables. I found if I went heavy or did high reps my knees would crack a bunch for the next few days. So I was just hoping to stop that but it actually has really helped in the development as well.
 
Probably the muscle most affected by genetics in the whole body across the population. I say probably because that's been the narrative for what seems like forever. Specifically to "high calves" I definitely agree but moreover I think the perception is based on how long they take to develop if they start out like pipecleaners. Too many guys give up cause "bad genetics". If your starting point sucks you might be looking at several years after any noob gains.
Biggest mistake made by most trainees IMO? Poor specific targeting of weight transfer through the foot.
Bad - Rocking up onto the whole ball of the foot.
Excellent - Make the effort to go up way higher than the ball of the foot. Try to push very specifically all the way through your big toe. ALL THE WAY UP until your big toe nail is perpendicular to the ground so you look like a ballerina.

This fits your issue very well @Palmer1991 because it puts a little more pressure on that inner head. Yes there really is only one tendon leading to both heads of the gastrocs but you can feel that there is more tension on the inside one.
Can you really get right up onto the toe like I describe? Well I have never seen it done without what would look like proper form but it's about intent and focus.
Angle of the toes? Toes out for the inner, In for the outer But don't over do the angle, at some point past about 15 degrees we are starting to grind up the innards of the ankle. I think you can get the same amount of effect by doing them straight ahead but varying the spacing which eliminates the excessive grinding of bony surfaces. Outside of shoulder width for the inner and feet tight together for the outer.

Individual anatomy rules apply as always so how to quickly see what these positions do for you? I believe Vince Gironda used to figure this out by doing some outlandish over training of the exercise he was trying to figure out. I recall that he did hundreds or maybe thousands of reps of the various triceps positions to see which ones hit which heads. So like 4-5 days in a row of only French Press with a dumbell and see which head got sore, then some rest followed by days of pulley pushdowns and same type of observation.
 
My calves never started getting bigger until I learned to train them properly. I do seated and I do them on a leg press, different leg days I train legs 2x per week, super fucking slow with full range of motion for sets of 15-30 your calves should start shaking and cramping near the end of the set.
 
Yea if I can stand in one position like a normal person after training legs then I didn't train them hard enough. I should start to vibrate if I hit legs good enough lol.
 
Pointing your toes at different angles is, well pointless. See what I did there? 😂

About the only thing pointing toes at different angles does is increased chance of hurting yourself.

Its like saying you’re going to do behind the neck shoulder presses because you want to hit the front delt hard. Regular front shoulder press (military press) works them just fine, behind the neck press is an unnatural movement and about all you’re going to accomplish is shoulder issues down the road.

Take a look at a cyclists calves, they’re always pointing forward.
 
Try standing elevated but only with your big toe and the one or two toes beside it on something like a 2x4 or even a rolled up towel depending how much weight your holding. Even a book in-between your feet but leave your pinky toes and out sides of feet off the book
 
Calves are one of my favourite topic

I am tall, small boned with high calves. For all my 20s, I blamed my genetics, and so rarely train them other than a few sets at the end of legs. People always commented on my lack of calves

For about 10 years in my 30s i lifted very little weights (other than some strength and conditioning with squats, deadlifts, bench, and rows) but did jujitsu five days a week - barefoot on the mats constantly pushing off your toes.

When I wear shorts now people comment on my defined calves. Just being on the mat constantly on your toes made them grow significantly

Today, I spend more time teaching than training jujitsu so I make a point to training calves when I lift and I continue to get good results

I always do giant sets, example seated calf raises for 15-30 reps followed immediately by Smith machine raises for 20 reps. (another variation I really like his calf raises using the hammer strength shrug device… immediately after seated calf raises I use this machine raise up on my toes hold five seconds lower
 
faller said:
Pointing your toes at different angles is, well pointless. See what I did there? 😂

About the only thing pointing toes at different angles does is increased chance of hurting yourself.

Its like saying you’re going to do behind the neck shoulder presses because you want to hit the front delt hard. Regular front shoulder press (military press) works them just fine, behind the neck press is an unnatural movement and about all you’re going to accomplish is shoulder issues down the road.

Take a look at a cyclists calves, they’re always pointing forward.
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Different leg angles work different parts of your quad
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
Calves are one of my favourite topic

I am tall, small boned with high calves. For all my 20s, I blamed my genetics, and so rarely train them other than a few sets at the end of legs. People always commented on my lack of calves

For about 10 years in my 30s i lifted very little weights (other than some strength and conditioning with squats, deadlifts, bench, and rows) but did jujitsu five days a week - barefoot on the mats constantly pushing off your toes.

When I wear shorts now people comment on my defined calves. Just being on the mat constantly on your toes made them grow significantly

Today, I spend more time teaching than training jujitsu so I make a point to training calves when I lift and I continue to get good results

I always do giant sets, example seated calf raises for 15-30 reps followed immediately by Smith machine raises for 20 reps. (another variation I really like his calf raises using the hammer strength shrug device… immediately after seated calf raises I use this machine raise up on my toes hold five seconds lower
Click to expand...
That's interesting about jujitsu, I read an article how a calf machine has proved time under tension is more important then sets. I guess there's some calf device that just keeps ur calf under constant tension while u sit around and it blew up the guys calf like over an inch in a few weeks. I only skimmed it cause I knew I'd never invest in it so I didn't analyze is much.
 
Load it up , more weight than you can get up or the absolute most weight you can get up and just hold the weight for as long as you can until it lowers to the ground. Spotter is good for this one if you wanna put a ton of plates on. Works for me.
I also do blood occlusion on my calves . You wanna be in pain do blood occlusion on your calves . First time I did it I didn’t walk right for a week
 
Think of time under tension, squats, bench etc take me like 3seconds down and another 3 back up. I could easy do calf raise in like 1 second because it's a short movement, I try to make it take as much time as a long movement like a squat so it really feels the load applied, after doing this my calves grew much better but there still a fat guy at my gym who barely lifts, doesn't train calves and has like 23" calves. Ffs it's bullshit lol
 
faller said:
So we’re talking about quads not calves?
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I'm just sayin quads is an example that different angles focus more on different parts of your muscles. Even biceps. If u curl the weight and ur wrist is slightly twisted outwards it focuses more on the belly and shoulder flies if u left pinky highest it works more on ur side delt. So lots of evidence angles play a part
 
Palmer1991 said:
I'm just sayin quads is an example that different angles focus more on different parts of your muscles. Even biceps. If u curl the weight and ur wrist is slightly twisted outwards it focuses more on the belly and shoulder flies if u left pinky highest it works more on ur side delt. So lots of evidence angles play a part
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Generally that's pretty much the case but that's not the case for the 2** major posterior calf muscles, the gastrocs and the soleus. The examples you used affect muscles that cross joints that allow that type of twisting rotation.

Both those calf muscles have the exact same insert point via the Achilles tendon and they don't cross joints that allow significant rotation.

The soleus has its origin below the knee at the top of the tibia and fibula which will allow a bit of that twisting when the knee is bent - the bones articulate. This twisting is what we are talking about when we say toes pointed in or out, Medial and Lateral Rotation (Axial Rotation). Note that though the foot is changing position the rotation is not happening at the ankle but rather just below the knee through articulation. It doesn't cross the knee joint at all and the amount of axial rotation at the ankle is extremely short in it's length, This could give a minor change in what part of the soleus gets work but noticeable in the resultant shape of the muscle? Nah.

The gastrocs is your concern. The origin is above the knee on the femur. The knee is only setup to swing straight back and forth. If you get any significant axial rotation through your knee, especially under load it will cause an injury, most likely at least a torn meniscus and possibly all manner of connective tissue damage. So the only way to safely point toes in or out when legs are straight is through axial rotation at the hip socket which will have near nil effect on what is happening in your gastrocs. So we vary the width of our feet as that's the best way to stress the target head.

** There is a third posterior calf muscle but we humans are literally evolving it out as it's pretty much useless. IIRC it did have a purpose many many years ago, I forget what it was though. Something like 40% of todays humans don't have them, presumably that will be 100% in the future.

Forgive me for any minor inaccuracies, I was struggling to put brain to keyboard but think I got the general ideas across
 
gondar1 said:
Generally that's pretty much the case but that's not the case for the 2** major posterior calf muscles, the gastrocs and the soleus. The examples you used affect muscles that cross joints that allow that type of twisting rotation.

Both those calf muscles have the exact same insert point via the Achilles tendon and they don't cross joints that allow significant rotation.

The soleus has its origin below the knee at the top of the tibia and fibula which will allow a bit of that twisting when the knee is bent - the bones articulate. This twisting is what we are talking about when we say toes pointed in or out, Medial and Lateral Rotation (Axial Rotation). Note that though the foot is changing position the rotation is not happening at the ankle but rather just below the knee through articulation. It doesn't cross the knee joint at all and the amount of axial rotation at the ankle is extremely short in it's length, This could give a minor change in what part of the soleus gets work but noticeable in the resultant shape of the muscle? Nah.

The gastrocs is your concern. The origin is above the knee on the femur. The knee is only setup to swing straight back and forth. If you get any significant axial rotation through your knee, especially under load it will cause an injury, most likely at least a torn meniscus and possibly all manner of connective tissue damage. So the only way to safely point toes in or out when legs are straight is through axial rotation at the hip socket which will have near nil effect on what is happening in your gastrocs. So we vary the width of our feet as that's the best way to stress the target head.

** There is a third posterior calf muscle but we humans are literally evolving it out as it's pretty much useless. IIRC it did have a purpose many many years ago, I forget what it was though. Something like 40% of todays humans don't have them, presumably that will be 100% in the future.

Forgive me for any minor inaccuracies, I was struggling to put brain to keyboard but think I got the general ideas across
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That's one detailed answer, I like it. What do u do for work? Its gotta be something related to this field eh Lol
 
My calves are classic bad genetics. The only thing I've found that does anything to them is when I use a spin bike for cardio to use my calves to power every down stroke slowly on a harder setting with toes on the pedals to push past flat, then back it off and ease up on them, then repeat like doing sets. They are destroyed after this and have grown as a result, and I get my cardio in
 
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