Researchers in Japan use soybean compound to make catfish 100% female - The Mainichi
SHINGU, Wakayama -- A team of researchers in Japan has succeeded in making catfish all female with a compound found in soybeans -- a development that
Scientist turns fish into female with soy
- Thread starter Bigbear
- Start date
Well we do that to our children as well. I read a report last week about the soy/estrogen levels in infant formula. There was the equivalent of 5 birth control pills in one container of formula. Look at young people today. Male testosterone levels dropped 50% in 50 years. It’s all being done intentionally. Male masculinity is like cancer to the radical left. I could go on and on….
Do you remember who published this? I'd be interested to read it if you can post a link.
Hanlon's razor is a saying that reads: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence. In simpler words: some bad things happen not because of people having bad intentions, but because they did not think it through properly.
As a species we've been cultivating soybeans for food for more than three thousand years, they're tasty and pretty calorie dense. They grow fast and are easy to cultivate. We just didn't know about the existence and effects of endocrine disruptors until very very recently. There are TONS of supplements, medicines and foods that aren't entirely good for you that we ate for a LONG time before we figured out "Oh Shit, that's not good!"
And that's only the beginning of the problem, are we going to immediately stop growing soybeans and let hundreds of millions of people starve while we spend ten or twenty years breeding a new type of soybean that doesn't have that effect?
Sometimes the "solution" is pretty fucking bad too. When we banned CFC"s because they were fucking with the ozone layer before we had a suitable replacement, millions of poor people in Africa died because they couldn't get access to affordable refrigeration for medicine and food. And it wasn't an emergency. The ozone layer constantly replenishes itself, ozone is an unstable molecule, it has to constantly replenish itself or the ozone layer couldn't exist. Scientists warned people, but tree-hugging had become a religion, so rich white people got expensive refrigerators and poor black people got fucked. That's politics. Then five years later or so, we came up with a good cheap replacement. Can't bring back all those dead black babies though.
I'm sure there are tons of supplements, medicines and foods that we think are wonderful today, that in fifty years we're going to find out aren't so perfect after all.
That's science, it takes time, and data, and a large sample size, and someone actually studying the data, and then replication of results, then further study, etc, etc. Human progress is like pushing a boulder up a hill. It's slow and difficult work.
Still, I think our failures are more easily explained by stupid than evil.
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While some studies show isoflavones can affect hormones, you need to eat a fuck load of soy in order to hit a target dose.
EXAMPLE; Women who take isoflavones in an attempt to alter hormones take a daily dose of around 150mg (up to 300mg) daily. It is marketed to help relieve some of the stress from menopause. It's unclear how effective it is, similar to many other supplements on the market. With that dose in context, Harvard Medical reports that baby formula contains on average 25mg per 100g of formula (upon testing of multiple brands). The average serving of baby formula is 5-8 grams. So, about 16 servings in 100g, or looking at content per serving; 1.56mg per serving of baby formula. Keep in mind that a gram of isoflavones is not in any way equal to 1 gram of estrogen. In addition, I couldn't find birth control to contain any isoflavones at all.
This is always a topic for me as I do eat soy products. I wouldn't say a ton, but my wife is Chinese so often cooks with it. Also, use it in my coffee. I've definitely done my reading on the matter and it's tough to come up with poisonous results from reliable sources that are often posted on forums in rants.
Although soy may contain the most, lots of foods contain isoflavones. Beer, meat, potatoes, cereals, and so on. Again, you could never really consume enough of any to amount to a 150mg - 300mg per day dose. Could I achieve that if I drank 2L-4L of soy milk a day? Yes, do I? No, that is extreme. And remember the science on the outcome of consuming 150mg - 300mg isoflavones a day are inconclusive.
Furthermore, some research shows isoflavones may have anti-estrogenic effects. Here is a link and an exert from Harvard Medicine.
"Soy is unique in that it contains a high concentration of isoflavones, a type of plant estrogen (phytoestrogen) that is similar in function to human estrogen but with much weaker effects. Soy isoflavones can bind to estrogen receptors in the body and cause either weak estrogenic or anti-estrogenic activity."
www.hsph.harvard.edu
If I ever ask anyone for a link to prove a drastic claim on this subject it is only because I have an interest in it. Not trying to be a dick and call your bluff. I do think there is validity to the conclusion that isoflavones and genistein can affect hormones, however, I've only seen this concluded under extreme/unrealistic conditions.
EXAMPLE; Women who take isoflavones in an attempt to alter hormones take a daily dose of around 150mg (up to 300mg) daily. It is marketed to help relieve some of the stress from menopause. It's unclear how effective it is, similar to many other supplements on the market. With that dose in context, Harvard Medical reports that baby formula contains on average 25mg per 100g of formula (upon testing of multiple brands). The average serving of baby formula is 5-8 grams. So, about 16 servings in 100g, or looking at content per serving; 1.56mg per serving of baby formula. Keep in mind that a gram of isoflavones is not in any way equal to 1 gram of estrogen. In addition, I couldn't find birth control to contain any isoflavones at all.
This is always a topic for me as I do eat soy products. I wouldn't say a ton, but my wife is Chinese so often cooks with it. Also, use it in my coffee. I've definitely done my reading on the matter and it's tough to come up with poisonous results from reliable sources that are often posted on forums in rants.
Although soy may contain the most, lots of foods contain isoflavones. Beer, meat, potatoes, cereals, and so on. Again, you could never really consume enough of any to amount to a 150mg - 300mg per day dose. Could I achieve that if I drank 2L-4L of soy milk a day? Yes, do I? No, that is extreme. And remember the science on the outcome of consuming 150mg - 300mg isoflavones a day are inconclusive.
Furthermore, some research shows isoflavones may have anti-estrogenic effects. Here is a link and an exert from Harvard Medicine.
"Soy is unique in that it contains a high concentration of isoflavones, a type of plant estrogen (phytoestrogen) that is similar in function to human estrogen but with much weaker effects. Soy isoflavones can bind to estrogen receptors in the body and cause either weak estrogenic or anti-estrogenic activity."
Straight Talk About Soy
The Takeaway: Soy is a unique food that is widely studied for its estrogenic and anti-estrogenic effects on the body. Studies may seem to present conflicting conclusions about soy, but this is larg…
If I ever ask anyone for a link to prove a drastic claim on this subject it is only because I have an interest in it. Not trying to be a dick and call your bluff. I do think there is validity to the conclusion that isoflavones and genistein can affect hormones, however, I've only seen this concluded under extreme/unrealistic conditions.
and hey, if you're really worried about it just crush up an AI in your soy milk.
Except once science does prove something, and nothing is done to change direction, you’ve moved from the realm of Hanlon’s razor to evil.
Tried to find it but didn’t. But while looking I found a ton of information about the negative affects. Just a simple google search. Common sense would say breast is best.
This is just one finding from a quick search:
The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infant-formulas is 6–11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods. Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in the seven infants fed soy-based formula were 13 000–22 000 times higher than plasma oestradiol concentrations in early life, and may be sufficient to exert biological effects, whereas the contribution of isoflavones from breast-milk and cow-milk is negligible.
I'm not trying to disprove what you posted here, it's great to have links to see sources vs copy and paste. Really not trying to be that guy, like I said, I like reading up on this topic. Studies can vary widely depending on who did them and the purpose of what they are trying to prove or disprove. Because of this, I tend to read all research studies with a skeptical eye. To be honest I wouldn't argue that a 100% soy milk diet for a baby is a good idea (I wouldn't feed that to my kids and at the same time I wouldn't do cow's milk either). obviously, natural milk is best. But when you open with "There was the equivalent of 5 birth control pills in one container of formula" it's difficult to follow because it doesn't make sense.
Like aguyfrom... I also have some issues with the conclusion here, If the conclusion is that the science is concrete, and soy is poison, and the people who sell it are evil.
When I read the article at the top, it said the experimenter used a SIMILAR chemical to isoflavones called "genistein" not soy, to stimulate the gender change. It said, the experimenter HOPES someday to get more catfish that are female to market, because catfish MIGHT be sensitive to isoflavones.
Also, it's not that hard to change fish or amphibian's gender, it's a natural ability they already have. Some fish just change gender if you move them into a tank with no other fish of the opposite sex for several weeks.
Now I don't do alot of research on soy, I don't much care for tofu or soy milk, and now I'm low carb, so I just don't eat it anyway. BUT, because of this thread I did do a quick search, and apparently, humans may be sensitive to isoflavones, and the overall effect might be good or bad, we don't know.
Notably people who consume alot of food with isoflavones get less cancer in general, and though they initially thought isoflavones would worsen breast cancer in women, because estrogen makes breast cancer worse, when they did the study, they found the opposite effect. So in theory isoflavones mimic estrogen, in vivo, isoflavones might be antiestrogenic.
www.verywellhealth.com
In general I don't think it's a good idea to read science literature when you have an axe to grind.
Isoflavones might be negative or positive for human health, the data is weak and unclear according to Harvard.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/
And that makes sense to me, because billions of Asians have been eating the stuff for thousands of years. If it was clearly a problem we would have known by now. If it is bad for us it must be weakly bad, because there's more Japanese centenarians per capita than anywhere else and they eat soybeans like it's the law.
It doesn't affect me though, because I only eat soy a few times a year. Miso soup can be fantastic and if you ever go to a sushi restaurant I recommend trying it.
When I read the article at the top, it said the experimenter used a SIMILAR chemical to isoflavones called "genistein" not soy, to stimulate the gender change. It said, the experimenter HOPES someday to get more catfish that are female to market, because catfish MIGHT be sensitive to isoflavones.
Also, it's not that hard to change fish or amphibian's gender, it's a natural ability they already have. Some fish just change gender if you move them into a tank with no other fish of the opposite sex for several weeks.
Now I don't do alot of research on soy, I don't much care for tofu or soy milk, and now I'm low carb, so I just don't eat it anyway. BUT, because of this thread I did do a quick search, and apparently, humans may be sensitive to isoflavones, and the overall effect might be good or bad, we don't know.
Notably people who consume alot of food with isoflavones get less cancer in general, and though they initially thought isoflavones would worsen breast cancer in women, because estrogen makes breast cancer worse, when they did the study, they found the opposite effect. So in theory isoflavones mimic estrogen, in vivo, isoflavones might be antiestrogenic.
The Health Benefits of Isoflavones
Learn about the benefits and risks of taking isoflavones for menopausal symptoms, lowering the risk of cancer and osteoporosis, and cardiovascular health.
In general I don't think it's a good idea to read science literature when you have an axe to grind.
Isoflavones might be negative or positive for human health, the data is weak and unclear according to Harvard.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/
And that makes sense to me, because billions of Asians have been eating the stuff for thousands of years. If it was clearly a problem we would have known by now. If it is bad for us it must be weakly bad, because there's more Japanese centenarians per capita than anywhere else and they eat soybeans like it's the law.
It doesn't affect me though, because I only eat soy a few times a year. Miso soup can be fantastic and if you ever go to a sushi restaurant I recommend trying it.
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Like aguyfrom... I also have some issues with the conclusion here, If the conclusion is that the science is concrete, and soy is poison, and the people who sell it are evil.
When I read the article at the top, it said the experimenter used a SIMILAR chemical to isoflavones called "genistein" not soy, to stimulate the gender change. It said, the experimenter HOPES someday to get more catfish that are female to market, because catfish MIGHT be sensitive to isoflavones.
Also, it's not that hard to change fish or amphibian's gender, it's a natural ability they already have. Some fish just change gender if you move them into a tank with no other fish of the opposite sex for several weeks.
Now I don't do alot of research on soy, I don't much care for tofu or soy milk, and now I'm low carb, so I just don't eat it anyway. BUT, because of this thread I did do a quick search, and apparently, humans may be sensitive to isoflavones, and the overall effect might be good or bad, we don't know.
Notably people who consume alot of food with isoflavones get less cancer in general, and though they initially thought isoflavones would worsen breast cancer in women, because estrogen makes breast cancer worse, when they did the study, they found the opposite effect. So in theory isoflavones mimic estrogen, in vivo, isoflavones might be antiestrogenic.
The Health Benefits of Isoflavones
Learn about the benefits and risks of taking isoflavones for menopausal symptoms, lowering the risk of cancer and osteoporosis, and cardiovascular health.
In general I don't think it's a good idea to read science literature when you have an axe to grind.
Isoflavones might be negative or positive for human health, the data is weak and unclear according to Harvard.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/
And that makes sense to me, because billions of Asians have been eating the stuff for thousands of years. If it was clearly a problem we would have known by now. If it is bad for us it must be weakly bad, because there's more Japanese centenarians per capita than anywhere else and they eat soybeans like it's the law.
It doesn't affect me though, because I only eat soy a few times a year. Miso soup can be fantastic though and if you ever go to a sushi restaurant I recommend trying it.
To my understanding, genistein is a type of isoflavone (or isoflavones contain genistein). I think it's the active or more potent ingredient that mimics estrogen. (I could be a bit off on that)
The OP of female fish is pretty interesting to say the least, lol. I don't feel it translates or is even meant to be a study related to humans. I wonder how safe it would be to eat the modified girly fish.
Stupid is a component. Humans invent shit without thinking of consequences all the time. We tend to chase bunnies off of cliffs a lot. We get so focused on one accomplishment we’re blind to the fact we’re running out of ground. Look at all the mesothelioma commercials and shit.
This is more just a plant we’ve ate for a while, that has some “shit. Look at that.” Scientific effects. But, the estrogen boosting effects have been known for some time. It’s still pushed, even knowing you’re weakening future generations.
As for Africa, we created a problem there. That’s on the developed world. Unfortunately an environment can only sustain what it can sustain. That’s nature. We went against nature by giving them food, water, and resources. Which allowed their population to grow far beyond what that environment can sustain. Now you’ve got a massive population that can’t be sustained by said environment, and we’ve made scarcity a far bigger issue. People are people, try to live, and invade countries. Thereby exacerbating the problem into a global one, and lowering the standard of living here.
it’s a wild world, my man.