odd freezing pipe

A

animal-inside

Well-known member
Trusted Member
I've owned this house for 9 years now. First 6 year I never had an issue with pipes.

Then I had a HE furncace installed. And I started putting a plug in space heater in the basement just to keep the chance of mold lower in the basement. We don't use the basement beside storage.

Last 2 years, the hotwater tap in my bathtub freezes when it gets to -40. We've had -40 every year and never an issue with this pipe freezing until last 2 years.

The only other change is I put a bigger wood stove up stairs.


I think what might be happeneing is the bigger wood stove keeps the furance from kicking on as much as it used to, so the furnace isn't pushing hot air into the basement like it used to.. But the space heater actually keeps the basement warmer then ever.


My basement is old style poured foundation with no insulation. The basement is finished. The finished walls are about 12 inches from the old concrete foundation.. The wter pipes run in this 12 inch space.

Any ideas why I am having this problem now?
 
animal-inside said:
I've owned this house for 9 years now. First 6 year I never had an issue with pipes.

Then I had a HE furncace installed. And I started putting a plug in space heater in the basement just to keep the chance of mold lower in the basement. We don't use the basement beside storage.

Last 2 years, the hotwater tap in my bathtub freezes when it gets to -40. We've had -40 every year and never an issue with this pipe freezing until last 2 years.

The only other change is I put a bigger wood stove up stairs.


I think what might be happeneing is the bigger wood stove keeps the furance from kicking on as much as it used to, so the furnace isn't pushing hot air into the basement like it used to.. But the space heater actually keeps the basement warmer then ever.


My basement is old style poured foundation with no insulation. The basement is finished. The finished walls are about 12 inches from the old concrete foundation.. The wter pipes run in this 12 inch space.

Any ideas why I am having this problem now?
Click to expand...
Weird. Might be a stupid question, but why don't you insulate the walls?
 
hard to diagnose without seeing the physical layout. im guessing the pipe is against an outdoor wall? the pipe freezes and doesnt supply water or freezes and bursts? furnace is in the basement? where is hot water heater? can you physically see the pipe from heater to bathroom? your diag is probably correct. so the question is how do you fix it? find the cold spot and insulate the wall or pipe. get an air circulating timer for furnace if thats a thing. you got overkill for heating. i dont like electric heaters as permanent solutions. expensive on electricity, hard on the circuit, but i guess it isnt a problem for you.
 
You are probably right that the wood stove is keeping the furnace from being requested on.
Could you maybe put a thermostat in the basement set to 5 or something as a back up?
 
The wood stove could be created a negative pressure on your house causing a draw that will pull outside air in every little pinhole in the foundation or the lack of circulation from not having a furnace running as much would create cold spots. Most furnaces have the ability to run just the fan. I would try running the furnace fan a couple hours a day
 
zenmonky said:
hard to diagnose without seeing the physical layout. im guessing the pipe is against an outdoor wall? the pipe freezes and doesnt supply water or freezes and bursts? furnace is in the basement? where is hot water heater? can you physically see the pipe from heater to bathroom? your diag is probably correct. so the question is how do you fix it? find the cold spot and insulate the wall or pipe. get an air circulating timer for furnace if thats a thing. you got overkill for heating. i dont like electric heaters as permanent solutions. expensive on electricity, hard on the circuit, but i guess it isnt a problem for you.
Click to expand...

The pipe isn't touching the foundation wall.

It freezes and doesn't supply water.. When it thaws out, no leaks and all is good. No burst (yet).

Furnace and hot water heater are in the crawl space area. Both are about 8 feet from the portion of pipe that's freeze with unrestricted air movement between the two.. The crawl space is very cold though, no insulation in it.

My furance air is always on 365 days a year.. it moves air well, but the HVAC on the house isn't great. It was built in 1952 with a major add on in 1996. Just wasn't done well. Lots of cold spots in the house, not enough return vents to circulate the house air throughout properly etc..

The possible solution I have come up with so far is insulate the pipe in question. It's a pex pipe, so can't really put direct heat on it, but I figure getting that styrofoam insulation that wraps around it will help it not freeze in -40.. No issues till -40, so squeezing a few more degrees might be good enough.
 
superbeast said:
You are probably right that the wood stove is keeping the furnace from being requested on.
Could you maybe put a thermostat in the basement set to 5 or something as a back up?
Click to expand...


no basement thermostat. I don't think the furnace could heat the basement separete from the upstairs?? Is this poissible?
 
animal-inside said:
Because I can't fit in 12 inches of space to hang the insulation lol.. And I only have access to 1 of the foundation walls.. Thank god all the pipes are in this spot.
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Basement is above 0.. Not even close to 0 actually.. But the pipes are behind that false wall.. In my opion the pipes should be going through the basement ceiling.
 
the pipe insulation should do it.
Vazsek said:
The wood stove could be created a negative pressure on your house causing a draw that will pull outside air in every little pinhole in the foundation or the lack of circulation from not having a furnace running as much would create cold spots. Most furnaces have the ability to run just the fan. I would try running the furnace fan a couple hours a day
Click to expand...
ya. maybe when it get cold just to run the fan full time. might be hard on the motor though.
 
zenmonky said:
the pipe insulation should do it.

ya. maybe when it get cold just to run the fan full time. might be hard on the motor though.
Click to expand...

The biggest issue is getting into the pipe.. 12 inches of space.. I'll try to convince my wife to do it, but I know it will lead to me getting frustrated with her lol
 
gaddam. so maybe @Vazsek is on the right track. i got a buddy who bought a 50s house. he said fuck it and reinsulated and rewired the house and fixed up venting one room at a time each year. i guess you dont want to start forcing air into the basement when you arent using it?
 
animal-inside said:
The biggest issue is getting into the pipe.. 12 inches of space.. I'll try to convince my wife to do it, but I know it will lead to me getting frustrated with her lol
Click to expand...
I wonder is there a spray in product that suits?
 
My house was built in 41 and originally heated with coal lol, it has venting from upstairs to the basement and separate heat ducts. Circulation must have been an issue before the days of forces air
 
I use a lot of the styro insulation at work. If you have access to any of it you can usually start there and slide it into the hard to reach spots
 
I think I found a super easy fix for my issue..

There is an access panel to just under the bath tub taps/drain. The pannel is on the heated side of the basement. I'm going to put a vent in this panel (like a floor vent).. This will allow MUCH more warm air to these pipes

I'll also put on the foam pipe insulation leading up to the area that is freezing. It will help.
 
It only takes a pinhole of draft from outside to freeze a pipe. If you can seal off the outside or find the draft. Another thibg is to actually cut a hole in the wall or drill a hole into the floor or wall so airflow can get in there. Last resort, let the tap drip a little bit during real cold dips and it wont freeze
 
Cheapshot said:
It only takes a pinhole of draft from outside to freeze a pipe. If you can seal off the outside or find the draft. Another thibg is to actually cut a hole in the wall or drill a hole into the floor or wall so airflow can get in there. Last resort, let the tap drip a little bit during real cold dips and it wont freeze
Click to expand...

Sorry I forgot to mention... I found out that my exterior garden hose tape is also letting in cold air thats hitting the pipe thats freezing. I'll fix that as well.
 
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