Lowering HBA1C

BanditNOLIMIT

BanditNOLIMIT

Well-known member
Trusted Member
Hey all

Reaching out for some thoughts and advice from those familiar with controlling blood sugars with insulin or other diabetes meds.

I understand my numbers are transient and will likely come down when I back off food, however I still plan to push things for a few more months. I also understand that my current numbers aren't really much concern from a general health standpoint. I'm aiming to lower them from an optimization stand point.

Here's my current situation:

Start of Sept 23 - A1C was 5.4. Implemented 500mg metformin daily, Lantus and Humalog 2 days per week on high carb days (10iu & 5iu x3 meals)

End of Oct 23 - A1C has risen to 5.5 despite implementing pharmacology. Food has increased quite significantly in that time frame, body fat levels are relatively similar.

So my question is, is it just a matter of increasing these dosages? My insulin use is currently far below the reccomended 1iu per 10g of carbs. Or are drugs not the answer and it's simply just a sign that I need to pull back sooner than anticipated?
 
5.5 is prediabetes, If I remember correctly. Definitely not ideal.

If I were you, I would buy a continuous blood glucose monitor and find out exactly when and where my spikes were happening, after what meals and how my sugars looked in a fasted state. It might be the best hundred fifty bucks you ever spent.

Not enough insulin makes blood sugars rise and high blood sugars damage cells and tiny blood vessels. Not ideal.
and
Too much insulin, (like, if you are injecting it) makes the cells insulin resistant, and brings you closer to full blown type 2 diabetes, Not Ideal.

If I were you, and I still wanted to bulk, I would try to get alot fewer of my calories from Carbs and instead try to eat more Fats. For instance a closed fistful of raw pecans can be eaten in two mouthfuls and has 400 cals.

I'm a full blown type 2 diabetic who doesn't use insulin, and I've gotten my A1C down to 4.7 using high fat very low carb.

Those are my two suggestions, continuous glucose monitor so you know what's going on, and more fats, less carbs. I would make the monitor my number one priority, it's impossible to make good choices with bad/no information.
 
Not sure about transitory, I personally never had high hemoglobin a1c even when I was eating 6000 calories a day, if you're using metformin, insulin and your blood sugar is still high, that sounds like a problem
 
Rocky said:
Not sure about transitory, I personally never had high hemoglobin a1c even when I was eating 6000 calories a day, if you're using metformin, insulin and your blood sugar is still high, that sounds like a problem
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BobTbay said:
5.5 is prediabetes, If I remember correctly. Definitely not ideal.

If I were you, I would buy a continuous blood glucose monitor and find out exactly when and where my spikes were happening, after what meals and how my sugars looked in a fasted state. It might be the best hundred fifty bucks you ever spent.

Not enough insulin makes blood sugars rise and high blood sugars damage cells and tiny blood vessels. Not ideal.
and
Too much insulin, (like, if you are injecting it) makes the cells insulin resistant, and brings you closer to full blown type 2 diabetes, Not Ideal.

If I were you, and I still wanted to bulk, I would try to get alot fewer of my calories from Carbs and instead try to eat more Fats. For instance a closed fistful of raw pecans can be eaten in two mouthfuls and has 400 cals.

I'm a full blown type 2 diabetic who doesn't use insulin, and I've gotten my A1C down to 4.7 using high fat very low carb.

Those are my two suggestions, continuous glucose monitor so you know what's going on, and more fats, less carbs. I would make the monitor my number one priority, it's impossible to make good choices with bad/no information.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the responses fellas. It looks like I'm being a bit ignorant here. I figured the increase was kinda just cost of doing business in bodybuilding. This is definitely my longest and most aggressive bulk to date. Previously I always maintained levels 4.8-5.0

Lifelabs reference ranges state:
5.5-5.9 - At risk
6.0-6.4 - pre-diabetes

Im not overly concerned just yet. I'm gonna wait to see what kind of changes my coach wants to make, I'm assuming it will be more insulin though. I generally get labs done ever 12 weeks so if I continue to see a rise, then that's probably a sure sign to pull back and pay more attention to the situation
 
I would go to the doctor.

Are you using gh?

Anyhow even when I ate 6000 cals for months my blood sugars fasted were never over 4.3
 
Sorbate said:
I would go to the doctor.

Are you using gh?

Anyhow even when I ate 6000 cals for months my blood sugars fasted were never over 4.3
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I've been using gh for about 5 weeks now. 4iu on training days only, but just added 2iu on rest days starting this week.

I have a feeling if I go to the doc theyll just tell me to stop using bodybuilding drugs and stop eating so much. Which is the obvious solution but obviously not an option
 
BanditNOLIMIT said:
Hey all

Reaching out for some thoughts and advice from those familiar with controlling blood sugars with insulin or other diabetes meds.

I understand my numbers are transient and will likely come down when I back off food, however I still plan to push things for a few more months. I also understand that my current numbers aren't really much concern from a general health standpoint. I'm aiming to lower them from an optimization stand point.

Here's my current situation:

Start of Sept 23 - A1C was 5.4. Implemented 500mg metformin daily, Lantus and Humalog 2 days per week on high carb days (10iu & 5iu x3 meals)

End of Oct 23 - A1C has risen to 5.5 despite implementing pharmacology. Food has increased quite significantly in that time frame, body fat levels are relatively similar.

So my question is, is it just a matter of increasing these dosages? My insulin use is currently far below the reccomended 1iu per 10g of carbs. Or are drugs not the answer and it's simply just a sign that I need to pull back sooner than anticipated?
Click to expand...

You can search all my posts/threads.. I've fought with the same situation for a few years now.... I posted a lot about what worked, what didn
t, what doctors wanted etc..

For me it came down to

1) just accepting i can't eat much carbs at all.. I'm pretty much less than 50grams of carbs a day and have 1 cheat meal a week. In that 50 grams of carbs is included all my trace carbs as well. I eat a high fat/moderate protien diet now.. I do notice my muscle just never really look full unless I have a pump and it can be difficult to gain size/strength, but its possible and when I do, those gains are very high quality.

2) Drop as much body fat as possible.

3) HITT cardio a couple times a week is better for me than any other cardio for loweinrg BS.

4) When I lift weights, I go friggin hard.. It really helps the A1c...

5) Lots and lots and lots of fibre lol.. On top of my food fibre, I take 1-2 teaspooons of metamucil a day. Anytime you eat carbs, eat at least the same amount of fibre with that meal.. So 10 grams carbs in a meal, eat 10 grams fibre.

6) Get your thyroid checked.. Getting T4 script helped my blood sugars.

7) Of all the supplements/meds I've tried, Berberine 500mg x2 day actually helped.. I Also beleive alpha liptioc acid helps me at 300mg 2x a day.

8) weird, but probiotics seems to help too.

9) Stress.. Manage it.. I can't explain or remember the mechanism, but stress just makes your body have a hard time managing blood sugars/insluin/hormones etc..

10) Find a good doctor and get lots of blood work.. Simple Stuff like B12 can affect your blood sugars..

11) Get a blood sugar monotior,, I got mine covered by my medical plan even without a diabtes diagnoissi.. Your dr can liely write a script for you to cliam it. I use mine quite often.. It's without a doubt the most effceitce tool I have to monitor how many body responds to diet changtes, supplement etc..

12) get really knowledgeable with food.. and test what food does to you with youor monitor..

13) gh messes up your blood sugars.. I did low does gh over the summer to help heal injuries and it didn't affect my blodo sugars, but it was low dose.. I think I was about 1.5-2 units before bed low.

14) I had to change my eating habbits in terms of how much time between meals.. I found my blood sugars got better spacing my meals from 2 hours a part to 3-4 hours apart.. i could eat the same marco's each day and my blood sugar was mch better if I had slightly bigger meals, but more spread out

I' sure there's more, but search my posts in the health care forum..

After an honest 3 full years doing full keto, foucssing on lowerring blood sugar more than any other fitness goal, I'm still sitting around 5.4 A1C.. I've lost 50lbs of fat.. I don't eat sugar or carbs, I don't drink.. I take all kinds of good stuff to manage sugars, but I'm still at not an ideal A1C.. I've accepted this is the way I have to live.. Lots of ppl tell me different things to do with my diet.. Anytime I try, my blood sugars rise and don't go back down until I go full keto again.. There's a chane you can regain some insulin sensistuiy if you make big changes soon enough, but I can't seem to make any head way in that direction
 
animal-inside said:
You can search all my posts/threads.. I've fought with the same situation for a few years now.... I posted a lot about what worked, what didn
t, what doctors wanted etc..

For me it came down to

1) just accepting i can't eat much carbs at all.. I'm pretty much less than 50grams of carbs a day and have 1 cheat meal a week. In that 50 grams of carbs is included all my trace carbs as well. I eat a high fat/moderate protien diet now.. I do notice my muscle just never really look full unless I have a pump and it can be difficult to gain size/strength, but its possible and when I do, those gains are very high quality.

2) Drop as much body fat as possible.

3) HITT cardio a couple times a week is better for me than any other cardio for loweinrg BS.

4) When I lift weights, I go friggin hard.. It really helps the A1c...

5) Lots and lots and lots of fibre lol.. On top of my food fibre, I take 1-2 teaspooons of metamucil a day. Anytime you eat carbs, eat at least the same amount of fibre with that meal.. So 10 grams carbs in a meal, eat 10 grams fibre.

6) Get your thyroid checked.. Getting T4 script helped my blood sugars.

7) Of all the supplements/meds I've tried, Berberine 500mg x2 day actually helped.. I Also beleive alpha liptioc acid helps me at 300mg 2x a day.

8) weird, but probiotics seems to help too.

9) Stress.. Manage it.. I can't explain or remember the mechanism, but stress just makes your body have a hard time managing blood sugars/insluin/hormones etc..

10) Find a good doctor and get lots of blood work.. Simple Stuff like B12 can affect your blood sugars..

11) Get a blood sugar monotior,, I got mine covered by my medical plan even without a diabtes diagnoissi.. Your dr can liely write a script for you to cliam it. I use mine quite often.. It's without a doubt the most effceitce tool I have to monitor how many body responds to diet changtes, supplement etc..

12) get really knowledgeable with food.. and test what food does to you with youor monitor..

13) gh messes up your blood sugars.. I did low does gh over the summer to help heal injuries and it didn't affect my blodo sugars, but it was low dose.. I think I was about 1.5-2 units before bed low.

14) I had to change my eating habbits in terms of how much time between meals.. I found my blood sugars got better spacing my meals from 2 hours a part to 3-4 hours apart.. i could eat the same marco's each day and my blood sugar was mch better if I had slightly bigger meals, but more spread out

I' sure there's more, but search my posts in the health care forum..

After an honest 3 full years doing full keto, foucssing on lowerring blood sugar more than any other fitness goal, I'm still sitting around 5.4 A1C.. I've lost 50lbs of fat.. I don't eat sugar or carbs, I don't drink.. I take all kinds of good stuff to manage sugars, but I'm still at not an ideal A1C.. I've accepted this is the way I have to live.. Lots of ppl tell me different things to do with my diet.. Anytime I try, my blood sugars rise and don't go back down until I go full keto again.. There's a chane you can regain some insulin sensistuiy if you make big changes soon enough, but I can't seem to make any head way in that direction
Click to expand...
Thanks alot for all those details!

if I'm gonna be honest, I'm not liking what I'm hearing but sometimes the truth hurts.

I understand reducing carbohydrate intake is likely the golden ticket but I seriously can't justify it. I can't see myself reaching my goals without consuming copious amounts of carbohydrates for extended periods of time. I've tried all sorts of macro break downs; moderate carbs and fats, low carbs high fats, high carbs low fats. I can say for certain my best progress comes while consuming high carbs. I just could never see myself bulking and eating like 150-200g of fats lol.

Your point about thyroid function interests me. Is a TSH test enough to make any sort of an assessment? My last set of lab work included TSH, it was within range but on the lower end. I'm not familiar with interpreting thyroid markers.
 
BanditNOLIMIT said:
Thanks alot for all those details!

if I'm gonna be honest, I'm not liking what I'm hearing but sometimes the truth hurts.

I understand reducing carbohydrate intake is likely the golden ticket but I seriously can't justify it. I can't see myself reaching my goals without consuming copious amounts of carbohydrates for extended periods of time. I've tried all sorts of macro break downs; moderate carbs and fats, low carbs high fats, high carbs low fats. I can say for certain my best progress comes while consuming high carbs. I just could never see myself bulking and eating like 150-200g of fats lol.

Your point about thyroid function interests me. Is a TSH test enough to make any sort of an assessment? My last set of lab work included TSH, it was within range but on the lower end. I'm not familiar with interpreting thyroid markers.
Click to expand...

In my prime I was around 300-315lbs, young, healed easily, no nasty injuries to work around, no kids, no stressful job, no commitments etc.. Back then on a decent sustanol cycle I have benched 455lbs with no special gear, dead liftiing 700lbs easily, incline pressed 145lbs dumbells with no spot etc.. but I was also around 16-20%body fat.. no abs.... I ate like a strongman... half my daily battle was eating and it sucked

Now, I'm 43 years old, eat less than 50 grams of carbs a day, missing over 50% of dominant pec, destroyed shoulders, partial triceps tear, partial bicep tear, very stressful job with long hours, a old house in the country to maintain, 2 young kids who consume my time etc. I can only go to the gym 3 times a week now etc.. I can still dead lift 405lbs for 18 reps, incline 100lbs dumbells for 10-12 reps, barbell curl 135 for 8-10 clean reps. there's no lat pull down machine I can't throw the whole stack on plus dangle a 25lbs plate and do nearly any variation of pull down for 8 reps, If I want to pay for it for weeks after I can still shoulder press 100lbs dumbells for 10 reps etc.. That's just using 100mg trt.. AND, I'm 255lbs now not 300lbs at 18% body fat, I actually have abs and I don't wind myself when I walk. I don't sweat eating or walking anymore, my face isn't red from blood pressure, I have no more digestion issues, I look forward to my meals and they are no longer a chore lol..

Your goals are likely possibly eating somewhat similar to how I do.. my days of bulking to gain muscle and strength are over and I'm ok with it. I can still make gains, but they don't come as fast.. But those gains also don't come with adding fat mass either..

I honestly don't think most people need the amounts of carbs they think they do.. For sure some ppl do, they can pound the carbs and still stay at a decent body fat.. And some ppl have such a high metabolism they need so much calories to avoid a catabolic state.. but that's not many of us.. Most ppl who think they need carbs/cals like this aren't honest with themself and they often carry around lots of useless fat mass.


About the thyroid.. I'm no expert.. I used to know more, but I forget lots... Testing your thryoid CAN be as simple as your TSH.. If its super high, you got a thyroid issue and need T4.. But lots of times its more complicated than that..There's lots of guys here who are so good at explaining the thyroid... Hopefully they will see your post.. if not, start a post just about thyroid testing.




Oh I should also mention.. taking steriods does raise your blood sugars too.. even TRT levels can make them rise.. I saw this when I sstart TRT.. and the dr said it would happen, but he also said with low tesoterone it can also cause blood sugars to go up and since your test is low you will get fat easily, you won't be as active, your muscle mass will go down etc which all will cause your blood sugars to go up so he said take the TRT, watch your blodo sugars go up a bit but get yourself bakc in shape and the blood sugars will fall.
 
animal-inside said:
In my prime I was around 300-315lbs, young, healed easily, no nasty injuries to work around, no kids, no stressful job, no commitments etc.. Back then on a decent sustanol cycle I have benched 455lbs with no special gear, dead liftiing 700lbs easily, incline pressed 145lbs dumbells with no spot etc.. but I was also around 16-20%body fat.. no abs.... I ate like a strongman... half my daily battle was eating and it sucked

Now, I'm 43 years old, eat less than 50 grams of carbs a day, missing over 50% of dominant pec, destroyed shoulders, partial triceps tear, partial bicep tear, very stressful job with long hours, a old house in the country to maintain, 2 young kids who consume my time etc. I can only go to the gym 3 times a week now etc.. I can still dead lift 405lbs for 18 reps, incline 100lbs dumbells for 10-12 reps, barbell curl 135 for 8-10 clean reps. there's no lat pull down machine I can't throw the whole stack on plus dangle a 25lbs plate and do nearly any variation of pull down for 8 reps, If I want to pay for it for weeks after I can still shoulder press 100lbs dumbells for 10 reps etc.. That's just using 100mg trt.. AND, I'm 255lbs now not 300lbs at 18% body fat, I actually have abs and I don't wind myself when I walk. I don't sweat eating or walking anymore, my face isn't red from blood pressure, I have no more digestion issues, I look forward to my meals and they are no longer a chore lol..

Your goals are likely possibly eating somewhat similar to how I do.. my days of bulking to gain muscle and strength are over and I'm ok with it. I can still make gains, but they don't come as fast.. But those gains also don't come with adding fat mass either..

I honestly don't think most people need the amounts of carbs they think they do.. For sure some ppl do, they can pound the carbs and still stay at a decent body fat.. And some ppl have such a high metabolism they need so much calories to avoid a catabolic state.. but that's not many of us.. Most ppl who think they need carbs/cals like this aren't honest with themself and they often carry around lots of useless fat mass.


About the thyroid.. I'm no expert.. I used to know more, but I forget lots... Testing your thryoid CAN be as simple as your TSH.. If its super high, you got a thyroid issue and need T4.. But lots of times its more complicated than that..There's lots of guys here who are so good at explaining the thyroid... Hopefully they will see your post.. if not, start a post just about thyroid testing.




Oh I should also mention.. taking steriods does raise your blood sugars too.. even TRT levels can make them rise.. I saw this when I sstart TRT.. and the dr said it would happen, but he also said with low tesoterone it can also cause blood sugars to go up and since your test is low you will get fat easily, you won't be as active, your muscle mass will go down etc which all will cause your blood sugars to go up so he said take the TRT, watch your blodo sugars go up a bit but get yourself bakc in shape and the blood sugars will fall.
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I'm under the impression that you're probably a big dude by nature if you're hanging at 255lbs without really trying.

I'm not big by nature, but I'm also not one of those really skinny guys. I tend to gain fat fairly easily. I'm sure most would say I'm carrying unnecessary body fat, but truth is I'm kind of at that point in my bodybuilding career where I need to get a bit fluffy to make significant progress. Over time the goal will be to keep these push phases leaner and leaner as I build more muscle.
 
BanditNOLIMIT said:
My thoughts were the same, but now I'm thinking otherwise based on most of the feedback I'm getting. I know it's not optimal but I didn't consider it overly concerning from a general health standpoint.
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Whats your age?

5.5 is withinin range, but lets say 5 years ago your A1C was 4.6... you'd be worried if it jumped up 1 point in 5 years of heavy eating would you not?

The other thing for me is that I'm 43, type 2 diabetes is rampant in my fathers side of the family.. Most ppl got it in their late 30's/early 40's... Read about type 2 diabetes and all the nasty stuff that comes with it.. It was enough for me to keep working on my blood sugars.. and to be honest even though my A1c is still a bit high, the other health benefits I got from making those changes have been so good for me and I look/feel so much better that it was all worth it.
 
BanditNOLIMIT said:
I'm under the impression that you're probably a big dude by nature if you're hanging at 255lbs without really trying.

I'm not big by nature, but I'm also not one of those really skinny guys. I tend to gain fat fairly easily. I'm sure most would say I'm carrying unnecessary body fat, but truth is I'm kind of at that point in my bodybuilding career where I need to get a bit fluffy to make significant progress. Over time the goal will be to keep these push phases leaner and leaner as I build more muscle.
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Good point, but it doens't mean you can't make your goals on a lower carb diet.

If you gain fat easily, why would you not adjust the diet to lower carbs ??

why wait to "keep these push phases leaner and leaner as I build more muscle."?? I don't get that.

Eat just enough calories/macro's to gain reasonable muscle mass. It's so much easier to gain fat than muscle, but aim to gain pure muscle.. In the long run you'll look better and be healthier.. and you won't have to "cut" to trim it off. Quality gains are much better than low quality gains.

If your body can gain 2lbs of muscle in a month, eat to do just that and no more.. eating extra to gain those 2 pounds will only turn to fat and will not help you gain 2.5bls of muscle instead. It doens't work that way. Anything extra you eat that can not be turned into muscle will always be stored as fat.
 
animal-inside said:
Whats your age?

5.5 is withinin range, but lets say 5 years ago your A1C was 4.6... you'd be worried if it jumped up 1 point in 5 years of heavy eating would you not?

The other thing for me is that I'm 43, type 2 diabetes is rampant in my fathers side of the family.. Most ppl got it in their late 30's/early 40's... Read about type 2 diabetes and all the nasty stuff that comes with it.. It was enough for me to keep working on my blood sugars.. and to be honest even though my A1c is still a bit high, the other health benefits I got from making those changes have been so good for me and I look/feel so much better that it was all worth it.
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I'm 26 years old.
I looked back on my blood work history, when I started to take training and diet really seriously my A1C was at 5.2. For some reason I recalled it being lower. That was back in 2021. I maintained that level up until this year where it's slowly crept up to 5.5.
 
animal-inside said:
Good point, but it doens't mean you can't make your goals on a lower carb diet.

If you gain fat easily, why would you not adjust the diet to lower carbs ??

why wait to "keep these push phases leaner and leaner as I build more muscle."?? I don't get that.

Eat just enough calories/macro's to gain reasonable muscle mass. It's so much easier to gain fat than muscle, but aim to gain pure muscle.. In the long run you'll look better and be healthier.. and you won't have to "cut" to trim it off. Quality gains are much better than low quality gains.

If your body can gain 2lbs of muscle in a month, eat to do just that and no more.. eating extra to gain those 2 pounds will only turn to fat and will not help you gain 2.5bls of muscle instead. It doens't work that way. Anything extra you eat that can not be turned into muscle will always be stored as fat.
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From my experience the fat comes on just as easily even with a high fat diet. And if anything it's a worse look because I don't get the same pop/fullness I do with the carbs.

As for the staying leaner comment - as far as I know it's generally easier to stay lean the more muscle you build simply due to increasing your metabolic rate. One of the reasons that alot of pro bodybuilders can't get fat in an off-season even if they tried.
 
BanditNOLIMIT said:
I've been using gh for about 5 weeks now. 4iu on training days only, but just added 2iu on rest days starting this week.

I have a feeling if I go to the doc theyll just tell me to stop using bodybuilding drugs and stop eating so much. Which is the obvious solution but obviously not an option
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Could be the gh. You need to get a Machine and check on gh and off gh to know your body.
 
Sorbate said:
Could be the gh. You need to get a Machine and check on gh and off gh to know your body.
Click to expand...
Without a doubt the GH isn't doing me any favors. I'm gonna talk to the nurse I'm working with to see if I can get a referral for one of those continuous glucose monitors. Doing it all on my own seems like a pretty big undertaking.
 
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