Was just wondering if anyone knwos if theres any compounds that are explicitly better at promoting fast twitch muscle fiber growth. I’ve heard Cardarine can help increase slow twitch? Would different compounds have effects on different muscle types?
Any Compounds promote fast Twitch Type 2 Fiber growth?
- Thread starter lgetlegend
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I'm sure there are, no idea which ones though. I believe most AAS have a greater effect on slow than fast twitch though but I'm hazy on what direct proof there is of that.
probably a tiny difference
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Very interesting. The water retention didn’t make you slower?
I was under the impression that your body just recruits more of one twitch fiber over the other depending on what you do most. Runners vs bodybuilders etc. The aas just boosting the amount of fibers total. Certain drugs have benefits that one would say is best for cardio vs strength lets say or vice versa. Like a runner wouldnt want to use tren but maybe wants eq or a sprinter wants winstrol etc. Powerlifters love anadrol etc. Maybe mike isreatel would be best to ask this question to!
I don’t really retain water on dbol. No more than I would on 500 mg of test and no ai.Very interesting. The water retention didn’t make you slower?
Ephedrine is your answer. You have to couple that with specific types of training. I’m assuming you’re looking at enhancing performance for your specific sport. When I was an athlete, I looked into these types of things. Ephedrine was the answer with lots of training. But if you focus on speed and jump training (which was my focus), any AAS you use will help develop your fast twitch fibers. It’s still muscle fibers just like all types. The most important thing is being able to fire those fibers and that comes with conditioning your body through proper training plus stimulants.
Also, the main reason I didn’t get on gear during those times was because if you add extra muscle everywhere, then you’re going to be heavy and that will impede your performance. It’s something I regret because I could’ve been on gear and only trained for exclusively for my purpose. But either way it could result in being too heavy.
Also, the main reason I didn’t get on gear during those times was because if you add extra muscle everywhere, then you’re going to be heavy and that will impede your performance. It’s something I regret because I could’ve been on gear and only trained for exclusively for my purpose. But either way it could result in being too heavy.
How can you avoid being so heavy? I have that very problem, within the first 2-3 weeks of every cycle I balloon from 235-240lbs to 265lbs. It’s then super hard for me to drop weight even when I can visibly see my waist line shrinking. Its crazy too because I’ll be as fast and explosive as I’ve ever been even carrying so much more weight than usual but I HATE that it affects my endurance. Which compounds add strength without the size/weight? I always did 500 test, 60Var, Cardarine, ECA. That’s basically been my baseline stack. I’m not a BB and I’m not interested in being the biggest possible. I’m already big genetically, I just want to be as strong and explosive as possible, good endurance and lean. I don’t need to be 260lbs of muscle like most guys are thriving for, I don’t care to have the biggest biceps and chest, I just want to be as atheltic as possible, obviously I want more muscle but I’m not trying to be a mass monster and I’d rather be lean and ripped than fat and jacked. My body is more for function than for show, I don’t need to be stage ready, I need to be track ready lets say. Cant just look good, body needs to perform good.
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Maybe you can stay natural (or TRT) for a while and cut down as much as you can. In the meantime, you can do explosive strength training and endurance. EPO is good for endurance. Maybe you can run that for a bit. Albuterol also works great for stamina and fat loss, at least in my experience. Seems like you respond well to AAS. Just don’t train for hypertrophy but exclusively for strength. Hgh is great too, I forgot to mention that.
Some thoughts.
Dealing with this question/situation was right near the top of my list of things in the S&C world that I got the most satisfaction from. The details of approaching this are important of course but I think you need to have a global view and philosophy that keeps you on track or you can get lost.
My opinion below, stated as facts. It would be a long process of in person conversations and physical testing to see if this fits you exactly which isn't gonna happen but I would strongly urge you to take a hard look from this POV, it may be the magic ticket.
Seems like pretty obvious that kind of gain is water unless you are a true freak of nature.
You have defined your goals pretty clearly since you joined us here. If you really only care about performance drop the bodybuilding mindset.
Just about every sport has critical desired minimum level of strength and a related maximum at which point strength training ceases to increase success achieved. Boxing is a good example. Since there are only so many hours in a day, once you reach that point your efforts in training should be majorly dominated by skill work. If programming is good critical strength will be maintained with minimal time directed at strength training specifically.
You may already be at that level.
A top pro S&C coach in your sport that had a lot of influence on me once said words to the effect of "At this level getting these guys stronger or in better cardio condition is seldom the bulk of my job. If they are not smart enough and motivated enough to already have that when they get here that is a different problem. My job as an S&C coach is to prevent injuries"
Training would be on specific skills needed for your sport. Some of those skills might not test your physical limits which is ok because that saves room in the recovery cache for the training that does.
Speed kills! Train it.
The training that does push those limits is mainly sports specific things that you do in your field of play done in an explosive manner with perfect form. Multiple reps so as to bring in the cardio component but the moment the form degrades drop that movement or reset. This includes things like plyometrics etc that mimic on field actions. Marv Marinovich had some great ideas in this vein. (You have too overlook his parenting issues, might not have been the best Dad) There must be a fuckton of instructional vids out there for this by various people but I wouldn't know who to recommend or how to vet them unfortunately.
Practice like you play! But overdo it. I mentioned the cardio component of the skills training but for cardio specific training isolated from the skills stuff structure the timing to mimic your sport. Why anyone would program long distance running for an O lineman who plays for 8 seconds every 4 or 5 minutes has never made sense to me. Try to exceed the in game limits. While a certain boxer may compete in 5 3 minute round fights with 1 minute breaks where 60+% of the physical component is actually "active rest" his long term goal for training might be to go 10 rounds of 100% all out ring work with 45 sec rests in between. Purposely going way beyond expected needs but with the same pattern.
You practice recovering efficiently between rounds, it's a skill. Just like you practice footwork, your left hook or any other skill.
I've been surprised about how many athletes don't have a "between rounds" recovery method that they practice. They just plunk down on a bench and wait til it's time to go again.
Needles to say your diet and recovery programs need to be excellent. None of this is drug dependent but with regard to AAS running a very minimal amount of a "Wet" compound and some dry compounds would be the fit to all I've described. Test - 80mg? Plus a couple hundred of a DHT injectable for example.
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Yeh like gondar is saying pretty much. Low dose test maybe low dose deca and mild dose dht compound. Something like cardarine can improve cardio. Ephedrine isn't healthy long run but for short performance enhancing sure. Avoid any compounds that harden and tighten you up too much like winstrol to avoid injuries. The rest is specific training, recovery and health.
This is the first time I have seen this on a forum, and it is so true. I used the principle back in my kickboxing days.
Great post, sir.
Awesome thanks. So much info I really appreciate it and Yes SPEED KILLS! I think for my sport a combination of speed, agility and endurance are most important. Its an extremely high skilled sport so when it comes down to it the skill component and the development of those skills are most important. My goal is to be as strong as possible while being as low body fat as possible and be able to move my verg big frame as quickly as possible for an extended period of time. Also why would you recommend such low test but higher DHT compound? I was gonna do Test 200 + Mast 300 or something similar. whats the reasoning behind lower T but higher DHT? Thanks!
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Pretty good bet that you are getting all that water weight from T aromatization to E. That points pretty quickly at "wet" compounds like Test, Dbol and Deca. The DHT's don't aromatize so you won't get so heavy.
The down side is that the intracellular water changes leverages in a way that makes you stronger. So you will lose that "extra" strength advantage that the water weight gives you. For anyone who's primary goal is moving "a thing" like a powerlifter, a sumo wrestler or an O lineman, taking advantage of that leverage and added bodyweight makes sense. Note these are not very cardio reliant pursuits.
There is always some balance of desired attributes in any endeavor.
For anyone whose primary function in their sport is moving their body through space for more than a few seconds at a time the balance shifts away from what those big belly boys desire. The gain of "explosive power" you'll get from all that water weight will not overcome the energy losses of hauling that extra 30lbs around.
Cherry picked example to illustrate -Take a 200lb guy who can do 15 wide grip pullups and a set of 10 Cable pulldowns with some arbitrary weight, say 200lbs and train him up until he weighs 230, how many chins can he do now? IME this gut is only gonna get about half the pullups but about 50% more on the pulldowns. The pulldowns gain indicates that obviously he got stronger but the pullups indicate that he didn't get strong enough to overcome the added weight.
Same thing as horsepower to weight ratio in a car, one number that gets used for drag cars is 18lbs/HP, If you add 18lbs of weight to the car you need to add 1 HP to overcome it for same performance. Lose 18lbs and "gain" 1 "free" HP.
I've never used cardarine and don't know much about it or how it fits into all this, still shy off it for various reasons, sides etc.
TLDR - 80-100mg of T is a replacement or maintenance dose to cover all the important things T does without hopefully adding any water weight which you appear to be very sensitive to. DHT are near equivalent in anabolic effect without adding water retention. 200 primo would be my first choice. After 2 weeks or so if water weight gain has been minimal you could start slowly upping the T to find your sweetspot. For you as an individual it might be very low but you have to play the hand you are dealt. Seems very much worth a couple of months of experimenting IMO
Hmmm your response really has me thinking and I really appreciate that! It totally makes sense and what you‘re saying is spot on, I gain like 20lbs from my cycles and retain like 15 post pct but even though I‘m way stornger and more explosive even, my endurance really takes a hit and it almost just isnt worth it where I‘d rather be lighter and have the better endurance. I think I‘ll try a lower Test and higher DHT compound this cycle. Any reason for Primo over Masteron? I heard its the same but Masterpn will still be less water. What do you think? Also what hypothetical dosages would you recommend? Thanks again Bud, I really appreciate it!
Primo over mast is a personal choice for me. First off I believe that Primo has a more positive effect on Nitrogen balance than any other AAS that I would consider to have a decent risk/benefit ratio. The importance of that by itself is an involved subject worth a look sometime when you have time. An important consideration when cutting but also any time you are in an unfed state, check the relationship between a positive nitrogen balance and catabolism. Hint- preventing loss of muscle tissue via a positive balance can be looked at as a net gain.
I'm choosing to carefully pick my words here by saying "I believe" because I formed that opinion based on an old study and I don't feel like trying to find it
. I also believe that many share that viewpoint with me. I'd welcome a post from any member on that subject, please and thanks.I've never felt any sides from Primo that I can 100% attribute to Primo. Possibly some minor prostate swelling and hair loss but I can have a more noticeable issue with both of those things sometimes when I'm only running 100-140 of T alone so I can't confidently pin that on the Primo. No change in bloodwork either. With Mast on the other hand both of those sides can become very noticeable after some weeks although not always. You may well be right about the Mast and water.
Var is a fit here as well. I could write pages on Var lol. So many have strong opinions on the ins and outs of it, myself included. Here I will just say that I fall far from popular opinion(s) but those opinions are so firmly entrenched I hardly ever bother to argue them unless it's in person, too much typing. Short version - I don't see it as a potent hypertrophy drug, never seen anyone blow up on it. But I don't think it's "weak", in fact I think it is WAY overdosed by bodybuilders, your self included
it has other qualities more related to strength and connective tissue health/healing where collagen is involved. Those do lead to hypertrophy but not as directly as some other compounds. Also, and this is top secret, it aids fatloss. SHHHHH. Look up the clinical doses of Anavar, it does some amazing shit at those teeny tiny doses.
I gave thoughts on dosages in the TLDR of the last post.
I hope some other guys chime in here, especially if to share thoughts on mast vs primo. You should never blindly follow one persons advice, no matter what you consider the value of the source.. This game we play is as susceptible to personal variables as anything else out there. Consensus is important to consider for sure but you'll never really know until you try it yourself.
Thank you so much for all the information and such well thought out and extensive. I really appreciate you taking so much time to thoroughly answer my posts and other questions. Thanks so much man!Primo over mast is a personal choice for me. First off I believe that Primo has a more positive effect on Nitrogen balance than any other AAS that I would consider to have a decent risk/benefit ratio. The importance of that by itself is an involved subject worth a look sometime when you have time. An important consideration when cutting but also any time you are in an unfed state, check the relationship between a positive nitrogen balance and catabolism. Hint- preventing loss of muscle tissue via a positive balance can be looked at as a net gain.
I'm choosing to carefully pick my words here by saying "I believe" because I formed that opinion based on an old study and I don't feel like trying to find it
I've never felt any sides from Primo that I can 100% attribute to Primo. Possibly some minor prostate swelling and hair loss but I can have a more noticeable issue with both of those things sometimes when I'm only running 100-140 of T alone so I can't confidently pin that on the Primo. No change in bloodwork either. With Mast on the other hand both of those sides can become very noticeable after some weeks although not always. You may well be right about the Mast and water.
Var is a fit here as well. I could write pages on Var lol. So many have strong opinions on the ins and outs of it, myself included. Here I will just say that I fall far from popular opinion(s) but those opinions are so firmly entrenched I hardly ever bother to argue them unless it's in person, too much typing. Short version - I don't see it as a potent hypertrophy drug, never seen anyone blow up on it. But I don't think it's "weak", in fact I think it is WAY overdosed by bodybuilders, your self included
Look up the clinical doses of Anavar, it does some amazing shit at those teeny tiny doses.
I gave thoughts on dosages in the TLDR of the last post.
I hope some other guys chime in here, especially if to share thoughts on mast vs primo. You should never blindly follow one persons advice, no matter what you consider the value of the source.. This game we play is as susceptible to personal variables as anything else out there. Consensus is important to consider for sure but you'll never really know until you try it yourself.
Obviously by my posts I don't think that will happen in this case but that's a good thing to consider and I regret not mentioning it specifically. Good catch Sir.
Bloodwork, Bloodwork, Bloodwork. But consciously looking for signs of sides like this, high or low E in this case, is hopefully automatic.
same for Masteron? I was thinking about doing 300 Test Prop and 500 Mast prop. Maybe 400 mast prop or should this also be equal to the test? Maybe I should go lower on the test more like you recommended, maybe 200… I think my cycle this time around will be something like:
200-300 test p
400-500 mast p
Var 50
HGH 2iu/day