A bit of a renovation question

Sorbate

Sorbate

Board Dumbass
Trusted Member
So I think I’m going to do open beam in my garage. So I’ll get someone to spray closed cell spray foam on the roof, then I’ll paint everything.

Only one question and it’s electrical related.

Here is the picture
E4280D9E-7168-4807-AE00-BB4CDD38BADB.jpeg
So as you can see the lines run from my electrical box to the house from the garage, now I know in commercial buildings if wire is exposed it needs to be in conduit or something similar, but I have noticed in other unfinished garages, the wire is not encapsulated.

So now I’m stumped. I was going to use weaping tile to tidy up the biggest bundle, cut open the back then slip wire inside loose.
Not sure if wire is allowed to be bundled like that if its aluminum.

Anyhow any help would be appreciated.
 
This is a hazard you are going to have to use more than a weaping tile! I am definitely confused about the question? In US the standard inside the cord is have two negative and one positive you have extra negative as a storm protector which is automatically billed inside the cord you would have to rewire the whole thing by cutting a suction where is damage & replacing it with new cord, you can cut the rubber part to get to the wires & rewire the whole thing and then you can seal with some kinda of electrical tape.
 
Be honest with you it’s kinda hard to tell on what you mean can you do a close-up shot on where it’s damaged?
 
I looked up the code and I guess over 1.5 meters I don’t need to protect the bare wire.
Plus I am not allowed to encase the wiring because it will reduce its load because of increased heat.
So all good.

I’m sorry I worded my question in a way that no one would understand, lol.
 
I know in the cord you have three wires and in those three wires you have bunch of little wires and if it’s just that one little wire from the inside of one of three wires then nothing to worry about. I would still use electrical tape to protect it from extra wear. Good luck on your basement 😃
 
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Annika said:
I know in the cord you have three wires and in those three wires you have bunch of little wires and if it’s just that one little wire from the inside of one of three wires then nothing to worry about. Good luck on your basement 😃
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I’ll clarify. I was wondering I’m exposed Romex cable needed to be protected in the ceiling of my garage.
I had tried to look this up yesterday and had no luck, then I happened on to an electrical contractor forum that was Canadian based, and luckily Ontario.

An inspector had answered roughly the same question I asked, and he stated above 1.5 meters no protection is needed, and on the top of trusses is fine.

Any plugs I plan on adding I would run inside the walls behind the drywall, so it’s protected and doesn’t need to be in bx or conduit.

Then I got lucky and on the same forum there was a post about bundling Romex together and over 24” and the rating of the wiring reduces because of heat, so now I know I can’t put it in a piece of plastic, which is fine, because it was going to be more for protection which I don’t need to do.

Than as a final piece of good luck, same forum, someone asked if you can paint Romex, and yes as long as it doesn’t degrade the outer shell.

So all is good, I worried over nothing.

Only thing left is if I really want to do an open concept ceiling, only because of two reasons,
1. If I ever need sheeting replaced on my roof, it will make a huge mess and I’ll need to respray foam after and repaint.
Some people think spray foam may contribute to moisture getting into the roof sheeting, but I think that only occurs with open cell and not closed cell, after everything I have read.
2. I will get spider webs, and maybe a bird try to nest up in the rafters. I have this tendency to leave my garage door open whenever I’m home in the milder weather.

I’m not worried about heating the extra space in the ceiling, I’m going to install a small ceiling fan attached to the lights to push the warm air down in the winter, plus I oversized the heater. Since it will only be heated to a temperature above freezing unless we are training in there. I figured 80,000 btu in a 400 sqft area would be big enough, Bwahaaa.

Plus I don’t have to worry about upgrading my gas line, already did that for the 400,000 btu pool heater, which doesn’t run in the winter when I run the garage heater. I’m good to 600,000 btu at my house, 2” line from the meter, lol.
 
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Ya code will be different for every province, without looking at code i personally wouldnt have been worried, its not technically bare wire. It'll be in a jacket and then insulated yet.

Curious why your fed from your garage? Did the hydro company install meter on your garage? I know they are famous for putting meters in stupid spots here so they have less responsibility on their end.
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about that big bunch and on top of the truss as long as it’s not a walking space you’re fine
 
Treneth said:
Ya code will be different for every province, without looking at code i personally wouldnt have been worried, its not technically bare wire. It'll be in a jacket and then insulated yet.

Curious why your fed from your garage? Did the hydro company install meter on your garage? I know they are famous for putting meters in stupid spots here so they have less responsibility on their end.
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Just the way these houses were built in 1972. All backsplits like mine have the panel in the garage.
Damn I still have the old fuse box, and I, uhm, I mean the guy before me added a 60 amp pony panel to it. Used a stove fuse connection inside the fuse box to feed the lines. He needed to hook up his pool and hot tub some how, lol.

I have changed all the fuses to the resettable ones, the previous owner had put 20-25 amp fuses in all the 15 amp lines and yes it’s aluminum. Should have seen the cool welded together aluminum wiring in the basement ceiling, the fucking idiot.

I don’t care where the fuse box is, mind you if it was in the basement I could have added another line down there, only 15 amp service for the whole basement. The washer is wired seperatly. When I redid the basement I used LCD lighting down there, after I did a load calculation, I had a stand with an electric fireplace, plus my game consoles, tv and stereo, so wanted to make sure I had enough power. Unfortunately my new electric fireplace draws 11 amps and I can’t use it, I need to pull it apart and see if it can be rewired to reduce its draw. Hopefully it had 2 separate coils wired together, so I can unhook one set.

There are some disadvantages to this house, but some advantages, like I have 5 different exits/entrances, one from my basement to the garage. For fun sometimes if I hear my wife calling for me, I go in and out different doors so she can’t find me, lol.
 
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ElectricRocker said:
I wouldn’t worry too much about that big bunch and on top of the truss as long as it’s not a walking space you’re fine
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Not a walking space. Was just concerned because I know in commercial it has to be protected even if attached to the qdeck.
 
Well the way I do things I look at it and I can repair it from visualizing. I’m not good with words at all lol I guess that’s because I’m polyglot my apologies.
 
not sure about your wiring question, but just look up the code and follow it to a T.

BUt I'd deffinitly spray foam that yourself. Super easy to do and actually fun.. Don't buy the shit they sell at home hardware.. get the contractor grade stuff. I really enjoying spraying my porch lol. just make sure you wear a painters suit and chemical mask with the right filter.

Also FYI... in AB if you spray 2 inches of spray foam and let it develop a crust over 2-3 mins and spray another inch on top of it, it exceeds the code for vapour barrier as well. Saved a ton of work putting a vapour barrier up by myself.
 
animal-inside said:
not sure about your wiring question, but just look up the code and follow it to a T.

BUt I'd deffinitly spray foam that yourself. Super easy to do and actually fun.. Don't buy the shit they sell at home hardware.. get the contractor grade stuff. I really enjoying spraying my porch lol. just make sure you wear a painters suit and chemical mask with the right filter.

Also FYI... in AB if you spray 2 inches of spray foam and let it develop a crust over 2-3 mins and spray another inch on top of it, it exceeds the code for vapour barrier as well. Saved a ton of work putting a vapour barrier up by myself.
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most spray foam insulation guys use supplied air for these products. It has isocyanates in it and they can be pretty nasty. Long term exposure can create a whole host of respiratory issues but the most common issue with its use is dermal sensitization to the chemical and it can be ugly. Some people can be sensitized with very limited exposure. Dont get it on your skin.

if you were to use a negative pressure respirator for this on a small project be sure to get a full face one equipped with organic vapour cartridges. I wouldn’t recommend this though.
 
biguglynewf said:
most spray foam insulation guys use supplied air for these products. It has isocyanates in it and they can be pretty nasty. Long term exposure can create a whole host of respiratory issues but the most common issue with its use is dermal sensitization to the chemical and it can be ugly. Some people can be sensitized with very limited exposure. Dont get it on your skin.

if you were to use a negative pressure respirator for this on a small project be sure to get a full face one equipped with organic vapour cartridges. I wouldn’t recommend this though.
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weird.. I went through a whole sale supplier and the guy also sprayed it as a job.. Said respirator and suit, but nothign about not getting it on skin or using full face respirator..

He even mentioned if he did a garage he often didn't use a respirator and just left doors open.

The stuff I got was 2 parts and self propelled.. had to keep the canisters hot..
 
animal-inside said:
weird.. I went through a whole sale supplier and the guy also sprayed it as a job.. Said respirator and suit, but nothign about not getting it on skin or using full face respirator..

He even mentioned if he did a garage he often didn't use a respirator and just left doors open.

The stuff I got was 2 parts and self propelled.. had to keep the canisters hot..
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That’s because they don’t know or don’t care. Because most of these tools don’t even have the common sense to read the sds, nevermind actually know the true risks associated with what they are using.

2 parts is exactly right. One is the agent and one is the activator. Look up isocyanates. You won’t like what you read. Foaming processes, hardeners and clear coats are what they are primarily used in. Also in some hot melt adhesives.

it’s probably an MDI which is far less hazardous than TDI, but still can cause severe sensitization issues from short term use and some pretty terrible health issues from longer term usage.
Dont fuck with isocyanates.... sooner or later you will lose.
 
biguglynewf said:
That’s because they don’t know or don’t care. Because most of these tools don’t even have the common sense to read the sds, nevermind actually know the true risks associated with what they are using.

2 parts is exactly right. One is the agent and one is the activator. Look up isocyanates. You won’t like what you read. Foaming processes, hardeners and clear coats are what they are primarily used in. Also in some hot melt adhesives.

it’s probably an MDI which is far less hazardous than TDI, but still can cause severe sensitization issues from short term use and some pretty terrible health issues from longer term usage.
Dont fuck with isocyanates.... sooner or later you will lose.
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When I get a chance I'll deffintitely take a peak at that info....

guys who do it for a living don't know or what precautions are they taking?

the guy I bought my stuff for has been doing it for a long long time.
 
animal-inside said:
When I get a chance I'll deffintitely take a peak at that info....

guys who do it for a living don't know or what precautions are they taking?

the guy I bought my stuff for has been doing it for a long long time.
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Most guys that do it for a living run supplied air. At least the ones that understand the risks.

it is a designated substance here in Ontario and businesses that use it are required to run a control program that includes medical surveillance. Similar to things like benzene, lead and ethylene oxide. Not sure how other jurisdictions treat it. As I say TDI is really terrible and used less and less now with MDI being less hazardous. But still can be ugly. HDI I have little experience with.

Im not bullshitting you here. I know this chemical and it’s risks very well.

Don’t subscribe to the fear factor stories. It is a good product for what it does. You just need to treat it responsibly. Especially when it’s reacting. Once it’s foamed and flashed off ( for lack of a better term) it’s pretty damn stable and safe. Isocyanates are highly reactive so the uglies are present for a short while and then gone relatively quickly.

I would use it in my home. But I’d be in a tyvek suit and supplied air to spray it.
 
biguglynewf said:
Most guys that do it for a living run supplied air. At least the ones that understand the risks.

it is a designated substance here in Ontario and businesses that use it are required to run a control program that includes medical surveillance. Similar to things like benzene, lead and ethylene oxide. Not sure how other jurisdictions treat it. As I say TDI is really terrible and used less and less now with MDI being less hazardous. But still can be ugly. HDI I have little experience with.

Im not bullshitting you here. I know this chemical and it’s risks very well.

Don’t subscribe to the fear factor stories. It is a good product for what it does. You just need to treat it responsibly. Especially when it’s reacting. Once it’s foamed and flashed off ( for lack of a better term) it’s pretty damn stable and safe. Isocyanates are highly reactive so the uglies are present for a short while and then gone relatively quickly.

I would use it in my home. But I’d be in a tyvek suit and supplied air to spray it.
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I’m not spraying it myself. I don’t want to deal with the cleanup, set up and so on. I’ll be at work and they will do it, I’ll come home and it will be done, lol.
All the other work I’ll do myself, well other than running the gas line for the heater, I’ll let a pro do that as well. Could I do it, yes, could I do it safely, yes, but some things I just won’t screw with.

Funny story, when the guy was installing my huge gas meter, he had screwed around the tiny high pressure hose that attached to the in side of the meter and damaged the flared end.
So he leaves, I come home, I look at meter, you know, admiring it’s hugeness and the amount of gas it would allow thru, lol.
I hear this hissing, and smell gas, lol. So I turn off the shut off valve, notice the damaged pipe, I grab my flare tool for brake lines, reflare the end, reattach and good to go, used soapy water to test for leaks.
Then I called the guy (he gave me his phone number) and told him what happened, asked if he would check it just in case. The guy thanked me for not calling the office, he would have been in big trouble.

So can I do it yes, but if my house blows up, I want to be covered by insurance, lol.
 
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