how much is too much?

addy

addy

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Whats everyones opinion on over training? Since my gym is still closed (grrrr) I am training with the few dumbells/bars I have at home and really like to target all the muscles I can in one day if I have the energy so legs, chest, arms, back, shoulders... The thing is certain muscles I hit will be quite sore for a few days after, nothing terrible like a while ago when I did curls, just normal soreness but Im wondering if I can do pushups if my pecs are still a bit sore? I just dont want to do too much and lose progress.

A bit of pain is not a problem lol I feel like I can lift all day with my current cycle but yea I realize you need some rest time, is it enough rest when I sleep? I like to workout every day but maybe I will have to rotate certain muscles on certain days. Though when I have access to a gym I like to have specific days like chest days, leg days, arms.. etc
 
I subscribe to overtraining, but often it is training when immune system is compromised or under nutrition. Overtraining is definitely a concern, but I personally believe it is a term thrown around far to often now a days and trainers are capitalizing on this.
I do not think in my opinion overtraining is as bad as some would like to believe. I see the guys doing the same shit day after day, then saying I need a down week as I am overtraining?????WTF, you have not changed in 2 years I have been seeing you train, and now you are overtraining?
BS...
Adrenal fatigue is a thing, our diets we think we need to do is a contributing factor. Eat, train, rest and repeat...
Overtraining is definitely a case by case situation. Today the term is thrown around as a buzz word and to make some folks feel better because they are lazy facks...Maybe to harsh, but I hear this way too much from general population....
 
I agree to some degree with @ironwill - a lot depends on your genetics, if your on gear, your nutrition, sleep, stress, and absolutely adrenal fatigue is a real issue hence the use of adaptogens if needed.
unless injured I don't take time off (days off of course), but will change and do lower weight / higher reps or completely change my mindset and just do mass building exercises like squats, bent rows, close grip reverse chins, deads (not anymore), some variation of bench, EOD for a month to change things up. The latter was is my younger days.
training is about progressive overload which means moving more iron but with injuries and getting older, I have to vary my approach and if I'm beat I will take an extra day off. If I feel an injury, I'm no longer stupid I stop and ice it immediately but continue to train but work around the injury.
I would rather wear out than rust out. I know the good pain and bad pain and when to stop and keep going.
True overtraining is counterproductive but few do it.
You need to learn to listen to your body and everyone isn't built like Ironwill or has his genetics. Based on your pick Will - I assume your a large man with good genetics and can handle more than the average Joe.
GR
 
Goldenrod said:
I agree to some degree with @ironwill - a lot depends on your genetics, if your on gear, your nutrition, sleep, stress, and absolutely adrenal fatigue is a real issue hence the use of adaptogens if needed.
unless injured I don't take time off (days off of course), but will change and do lower weight / higher reps or completely change my mindset and just do mass building exercises like squats, bent rows, close grip reverse chins, deads (not anymore), some variation of bench, EOD for a month to change things up. The latter was is my younger days.
training is about progressive overload which means moving more iron but with injuries and getting older, I have to vary my approach and if I'm beat I will take an extra day off. If I feel an injury, I'm no longer stupid I stop and ice it immediately but continue to train but work around the injury.
I would rather wear out than rust out. I know the good pain and bad pain and when to stop and keep going.
True overtraining is counterproductive but few do it.
You need to learn to listen to your body and everyone isn't built like Ironwill or has his genetics. Based on your pick Will - I assume your a large man with good genetics and can handle more than the average Joe.
GR
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I am a bit genetically inclined for strength and muscle. BUT, I gain muscle very easy and have to eat a lot when in a building phase. If I do not, I will become tired and my immune system gets compromised. So I adjust my calories to compensate.
Lack of salt, electrolyte imbalances and mineral deficiencies can make us feel like we are overtraining, but in fact we are under inputting electrolytes, calories and minerals etc.
I have seen overtraining in long endurance athletes, which most of us are not. We are anaerobic animals in BBing and strength sports, good to go hard for short spurts. Some of us have better aerobic capacity via genetics and hard endurance work. But to fit that all in one bill is a rarity. Endurance, strength and musculature.
Some of the folks on CrossFit worlds fittest are examples of these rare folks, not American ninja warriors, but some of the crossfit athletes popping up lately are a good mix of all, especially in the ladies, there are some supreme athletes there.
 
Awesome this confirms what I was already kind of thinking, like ironwill said seems like overtraining is a buzzword commonly being thrown around these days. I definitely notice when Im not keeping up with my nutrition/diet but Im still very new to this stuff so Im learning as I go and how my body reacts, same thing with good pain/bad pain and detecting injuries so I can stop before serious damage is done and ice it properly.

You two are a wealth of knowledge among many of the other users here, have learned so much in the last few months. A bit random but I now love z track injections which gondar1 suggested, never bleed anymore it changed my pinning game forever!
 
For myself I have to go by feel, I was doing lots of two a day workouts over the past few months due to covid and working out of town with no access to weights, roughly 45min in morning heavy weight low reps, then same body part 6 to 8 hours later just lighter weight higher reps. I wasnt really doing much during the days except eating napping chilling and I could only go for 3 or 4 days like that before I would wake up just not feeling right, fatigued, brain fog just not my usual self. Did I lose gains because of that? No. I wouldn't over think the over training keep it simple you'll know when you had enough.
 
Treneth said:
I wasnt really doing much during the days except eating napping chilling and I could only go for 3 or 4 days like that before I would wake up just not feeling right, fatigued, brain fog just not my usual self.
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I did exactly this and one day woke up feeling like how you explained, took a day off to rest and felt good as new the next time I went to lift, I guess that was my limit.

superbeast said:
I like Rich Pianas take. There is no overtraining. There is under eating and under sleeping. Lol
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Heh this is the double edged sword that is tren, good luck getting a consistent nights sleep. Best thing I found that I can do is just take a bunch of short naps throughout the day, if I dont have anything going on and Im allowed that luxury of course.
 
addy said:
I did exactly this and one day woke up feeling like how you explained, took a day off to rest and felt good as new the next time I went to lift, I guess that was my limit.


Heh this is the double edged sword that is tren, good luck getting a consistent nights sleep. Best thing I found that I can do is just take a bunch of short naps throughout the day, if I dont have anything going on and Im allowed that luxury of course.
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Didnt see the part about tren.
that shit makes me feel run down after 5 or 6 weeks.
 
superbeast said:
Didnt see the part about tren.
that shit makes me feel run down after 5 or 6 weeks.
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well at only 1.5 weeks in I feel a big decrease in endurance/cardio but my strength is up and the muscle gains keep coming thankfuly. I used to be able to do max 50 pushups when I was 165lb and now at 180lb(and going up) on tren I can hardly do 25 without needing a break lol... I lose my breath just walking around at the mall, or maybe its stress but I constantly find myself needing a huge breath followed by a big heavy sigh, if that makes any sense
 
Now who posted something important about supplementing with tren recently?
Even with less sleep with tren calories are likely the issue if feeling sore excessively.
 
i define over training as where your recovery is repairing damage instead of adapting to the stress of training.

i think if your are training properly its very easy to over-train. success in the gym doesnt come from a single "good workout". it comes from a succession of progressive increases in loading and recovery. the numbers dont lie. if they are going up, right track. go down, back to the drawing board.
 
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zenmonky said:
i define over training as where your recovery is repairing damage instead of adapting to the stress of training.

i think if your are training properly its very easy to over-train. success in the gym doesnt come from a single "good workout". it comes from a succession of progressive increases in loading and recovery. the numbers dont lie. if they are going up, right track. go down, back to the drawing board.
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Like Haney said."You must stimulate,not annihilate".
 
addy said:
well at only 1.5 weeks in I feel a big decrease in endurance/cardio but my strength is up and the muscle gains keep coming thankfuly. I used to be able to do max 50 pushups when I was 165lb and now at 180lb(and going up) on tren I can hardly do 25 without needing a break lol... I lose my breath just walking around at the mall, or maybe its stress but I constantly find myself needing a huge breath followed by a big heavy sigh, if that makes any sense
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Dad Mode: ON

No matter your level of experience in a pursuit of this sort it's easy to get excited about your goals and plans to achieve them. Sometimes focusing on our goals leads to not having enough interest in the details that are less positive and less enjoyable.

I'm not trynna tell you that the sky is falling but just remind you that these plans need to be fluid and sometimes stepping back and looking at the whole picture can be a good idea.

If one of the younger guys came to you and said "I've been consuming xyz and now I lose my breath just walking around at the mall, or maybe its stress but I constantly find myself needing a huge breath followed by a big heavy sigh," - What would be the first thing that came to your mind?

Dad Mode: OFF

TLDR - We had a saying; It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye

Cheers
 
gondar1 said:
Dad Mode: ON

No matter your level of experience in a pursuit of this sort it's easy to get excited about your goals and plans to achieve them. Sometimes focusing on our goals leads to not having enough interest in the details that are less positive and less enjoyable.

I'm not trynna tell you that the sky is falling but just remind you that these plans need to be fluid and sometimes stepping back and looking at the whole picture can be a good idea.

If one of the younger guys came to you and said "I've been consuming xyz and now I lose my breath just walking around at the mall, or maybe its stress but I constantly find myself needing a huge breath followed by a big heavy sigh," - What would be the first thing that came to your mind?

Dad Mode: OFF

TLDR - We had a saying; It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye

Cheers
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Good point.. & hey dad mode away someones got to give me good advice and it sure as hell wont be my be own father.

Is this a "the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long" sort of thing? I knew tren messes with your cardio/endurance but yea this is pretty hardcore I feel like a ridiculously strong person who is also at the same time morbidly obese and a chain smoker.. lol
 
Let's prioritize.

1) Fix Not breathing properly
2) Fix Not breathing properly
3) Fix Not breathing properly
.
.
.
A really big number) Everything else.

So yeah about the flame sure but I'd want to figure out what exactly was happening with my breathing as top priority before trying to solve the riddle of how much is too much cumulatively. Short term, long term, neurological effects of tren, CV effects, lipid effects, sex hormone effects.

I know the OP was about overtraining, this is overstressing something, something which is literally affecting the heart of the system.

I spoke up because my experience is that so many guys just accept certain sides and it bothers me. Something like balding is one thing but when a drug is fucking with your CV system in a way that you can unmistakably feel that's a hard no, at least till I've had a chance to figure out wtf and make an informed decision on how to move forward. I've been around some guys that need 30 seconds or so to lean on a wall after walking up a flight of stairs, even if they were going pro there still is something wrong with their program.

Lot's of guys around with way more experience with it than me and no matter any of their opinions I bet you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't agree that - Tren ain't no joke.
 
Well I should clarify my issue a little bit, Its not so much that Im out of breath like after running a few miles sort of thing, but more like a 'stress sigh' which Ive had happen before (years ago before I ever touched gear) heres what I read

"What does a heavy sigh mean? A: Negative emotional states — such as fear, anxiety and sadness — are in fact associated with sighing more often. Some experts hypothesize that people in anxiety-provoking situations may sigh in order to gain temporary relief from distress."

The thing is Im not noticing any extra stress/anxiety/depression in my mind, anymore than the usual at least. I walked my dog this morning for a good half hour walk and I always feel quite peaceful doing so but noticed I was having the heavy chest sighs occasionally but wasnt winded/out of breath or anything like some guys describe on tren.

Dont get me wrong its obviously the tren causing it because this started almost right away after I began my cycle, but is it stress (mental) or is it messing with my CV system? Ive definitely noticed a decrease in endurance though when working out which is annoying.

Other than the odd energy drink once in a while..and cigar, lol..Im taking good care of myself diet wise and getting my cardio from walking the dog every day.
 
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superbeast said:
Didnt see the part about tren.
that shit makes me feel run down after 5 or 6 weeks.
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@superbeast - I read so many people say this about tren and makes me wonder why take it. I am no virgin and will take try anything that has a decent safety profile in low to moderate doses and the sides aren't hell - have tried many AAS but there are many compounds I won't take and tren is one of them. I read about so many horror stories of it making you do things you wouldn't normally do like alcohol with some people and terrible sides. if the desire is as bad as I read, my poor wife as just TRT and Primo and my libido goes way up. The most common I read about is insomnia, anxiety, terrible sweating, and pure exhaustion for no reason. Most of the guys say they never ran blood tests when I ask what was the cause. I assume the trade off is incredible gains but are the gains and up that good they negate the negatives and lows?
Asking as I can't see ever trying it so I'm living vicariously through others with tren lol.
Did you keep on with the tren cycle and did the run down feeling subside?
appreciate your opinion compared to other compounds.
 
Goldenrod said:
@superbeast - I read so many people say this about tren and makes me wonder why take it. I am no virgin and will take try anything that has a decent safety profile in low to moderate doses and the sides aren't hell - have tried many AAS but there are many compounds I won't take and tren is one of them. I read about so many horror stories of it making you do things you wouldn't normally do like alcohol with some people and terrible sides. if the desire is as bad as I read, my poor wife as just TRT and Primo and my libido goes way up. The most common I read about is insomnia, anxiety, terrible sweating, and pure exhaustion for no reason. Most of the guys say they never ran blood tests when I ask what was the cause. I assume the trade off is incredible gains but are the gains and up that good they negate the negatives and lows?
Asking as I can't see ever trying it so I'm living vicariously through others with tren lol.
Did you keep on with the tren cycle and did the run down feeling subside?
appreciate your opinion compared to other compounds.
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Ive done it three times. All same brand/batch. Progressive Fina. Was supposed to be vet grade i think? Someone else may remember.
Can see your body changing everyday. Strong as fuck. But just turned into an animal. Eyes wander. Bad for marriage. Only thing ive taken that changed the way i think. But even when feel tired and shitty still had energy if that makes sense. I would feel shitty after 5-6 weeks but keep going for 10 or 12. Haha
 
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