How do you define strong?

King56 said:
So they would have simply cut an nfl linebacker based on failing a minimum incline dumbbells press??? I’m literally not to going to engage you in another senseless debate. Whatever you think dude. There was no minimum linebacker incline dumbbell press ...hell not every player on the early 80s even lifted weights... think about what’s you are even claiming with some logic dude. Lawrence Taylor was one of the best of all time, played in the 1980s, and is famous for not lifting weights...Charles Haley, a defensive lineman, also famous for this. Your just spouting things dude.
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Those two you mentioned plus Herschel Walker.Now you name another out of how many thousands who made the nfl that did not lift weights.You figure you are entering a major college football program and not lifting weights in the 80s....please desist with this nonsense....unless you are near super human this is not happening.Players get cut because of playing performance,Not because they cannot lift a certain weight.Your chance of remaining injury free plummet without conditioning.
 
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Cog said:
Those two you mentioned plus Herschel Walker.Now you name another out of how many thousands who made the nfl that did not lift weights.You figure you are entering a major college football program and not lifting weights in the 80s....please desist with this nonsense....unless you are near super human this is not happening.Players get cut because of playing performance,Not because they cannot lift a certain weight.Your chance of remaining injury free plummet without conditioning.
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Yo are all over the places pewing things I never said and now seemngly arguing against your point and actually for mine that performance would trump weight numbers. Are you comprehending things properly?
You're not even addressing my actual arguement and nor did I argue that most players didnt lift weights. I said some in the 1980s didnt and here are some players that didn't. This destroys your op claim that there was a min dumbbell press in 1980. I said there was no minimizing in incline dumbbell press for NFL linebackers. You further said you think they were using 225 now. Common knowledge, yes they are. It's absurd. Don't stray and argue a point I never made I merely addressed that nonsense if the NFL ever having a one dumblell incline mine minimum. Where exactly are you getting this information lol

I'm out this is as senseless as the arguement with newf about being followed and surveillance after buying weed only to find you didn't really buy the weed like you claimed.
Senseless , I think you just come here to troll sometimes, I'm done wasting time with you
Dude if you just write stuff that isn't true and you don't know about it, it doesn't have to be a fight every time you are wrong, jesus
 
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King56 said:
Yo are all over the places pewing things I never said and now seemngly arguing against your point and actually for mine that performance would trump weight numbers. Are you comprehending things properly?
You're not even addressing my actual arguement and nor did I argue that most players didnt lift weights. I said some in the 1980s didnt and here are some players that didn't. This destroys your op claim that there was a min dumbbell press in 1980. I said there was no minimizing in incline dumbbell press for NFL linebackers. You further said you think they were using 225 now. Common knowledge, yes they are. It's absurd. Don't stray and argue a point I never made I merely addressed that nonsense if the NFL ever having a one dumblell incline mine minimum. Where exactly are you getting this information lol

I'm out this is as senseless as the arguement with newf about being followed and surveillance after buying weed only to find you didn't really buy the weed like you claimed.
Senseless , I think you just come here to troll sometimes, I'm done wasting time with you
Dude if you just write stuff that isn't true and you don't know about it, it doesn't have to be a fight every time you are wrong, jesus
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.Clearly you have never played organized sport.Hockey,football and baseball here.You make the rules not the coach.I get it .Please don't troll me anymore.
 
gondar1 said:
Nah it doesn't mean you are weak, different people are gonna be strong at different things is all. Also most of "my kids" have been training with weights for way longer than people would think and I use the incline DB press as the primary pushing exercise right from the get go with a narrow/closegrip chinups or pulldowns variant for a primary pulling movement. That's why I jumped on Cog's post so hard, I am very familiar with it and how important it is for an athlete. If a football player, hockey player, rugby player etc or almost any kind of combat athlete is weak in those movements they are doing themselves a severe disservice, they are just asking to get tossed around no matter how strong of a base they may have.
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That is really good. I don’t think I have ever seen anyone whom is smaller push 90 lb dumbells on an incline in the gym.
I myself never had push strength, I never used it in anything I did in life. I have lift, pull strength.

There is a kid at work who is 16 plays rugby, football, tall fattier kid, he was excited he was pushing 180 lb bench for 10. Was trying to tell me he was doing 500 lb dead’s for 3. I’m not sure about that, but who knows. They have him doing specific training. His parents won’t let him use protien powder or creatine, lol.
 
Strong would be Louie Simmons and the Westside Barbell crew..... what those guys do I would consider strong.
 
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Cog said:
Early 80s.That is a min standard.Just like a vertical jump a coach might evaluate to be bothered with working a receiver out.Lou Ferrigno did not make the cut trying out for whatever nfl team it was.225 is with a fixed bar.Lee Priest apparently handled a pair of 180s at times....short arms.
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Short arms makes no difference.
Actually it can be just as detrimental as long arms. The angles at which the muscle fibres need to pull give them a mechanical disadvantage. So his short pec muscles and tri muscles would have a small amount of fibers in alignment to the joint to pull effectively, but a large majority would be at an angle that the pull force on the joint would be diminished. That is why short guys get the bulgy muscles easier, but don’t seem to be as strong for the size.

Try pulling a pallet with a rope when it is close to the floor, easy to pull, then try pulling the sane pallet with the rope at a 45degree angle from the floor and it will be a lot harder to pull.

I always get a laugh when someone taller uses this excuse. My old training buddy who was 6 inches taller than me used to use it, and the reason I got stronger than him was because I was more insane about my diet and sleep. It’s just not mechanically plausible, lol.
 
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I personally don’t know any insanely strong guys.
I knew a farmer who could do feats of strength that normal people couldn’t. Like pulling calves without the calf puller. Paid for it later in life with a lot of joint problems.
I watched my dad who never weight trained ever, loved cardio, lift a 230 lb plate of steel off the ground by himself and put it in the truck and he only weighed 130 lbs. He looked really angry doing it.
Truthfully if I think about it, my father was likely the strongest guy I knew. Damn he could work and work. Never gave up, even now at almost 70 he is cutting down all the large trees in the old people’s complex he lives in and stump grinding everything for free.
At his bodyweight he could lift some pretty impressive things. I remember one time we were pounding in I think they were 6 inch fence posts with a post maul, 16 lbs. you ever swing one of those all day? I don’t know how he did it.
So I guess it depends on what your definition of strong is.
I never really looked up to trained strong men, I was just not genetically anything like them, so I never got into it.
 
Sorbate said:
Short arms makes no difference.
Actually it can be just as detrimental as long arms. The angles at which the muscle fibres need to pull give them a mechanical disadvantage. So his short pec muscles and tri muscles would have a small amount of fibers in alignment to the joint to pull effectively, but a large majority would be at an angle that the pull force on the joint would be diminished. That is why short guys get the bulgy muscles easier, but don’t seem to be as strong for the size.

Try pulling a pallet with a rope when it is close to the floor, easy to pull, then try pulling the sane pallet with the rope at a 45degree angle from the floor and it will be a lot harder to pull.

I always get a laugh when someone taller uses this excuse. My old training buddy who was 6 inches taller than me used to use it, and the reason I got stronger than him was because I was more insane about my diet and sleep. It’s just not mechanically plausible, lol.
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Well,how about really tall guys and squatting?Years back there was this 5 foot tall Italian American that weighed 175 pounds.He could bench 500 and do 700 pound leg presses....with one leg.....
 
Speaking of one legged leg presses...anybody remember American speed skater Eric Heiden?I used to speed skate a little,former national short track champ told me the Canuck team visited the Americans at their base, Wisconsin iirc.Trained next to Heidecker doing one legged leg press 1100 pounds repping out....he was astounded.
 
Cog said:
.Clearly you have never played organized sport.Hockey,football and baseball here.You make the rules not the coach.I get it .Please don't troll me anymore.
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Clearly you make have a history of making things up and routinely get called on it and only become confrontational. You have have been already caught and admitted to lying in the pot thread. I just don’t have time for people that lie to pass time.
As for never playing organized sports....wow..are you barking up the wrong tree on this one lmao.

Let’s agree to ignore each other but stop posting blatantly untrue things and we won’t have issues. Thanks and let’s move on , more then happy to put this sillines with you too to rest. Cheers
 
Huh ? Is that at me? I don’t even know what you are saying if thst is at me, but it is you can’t simply help yourself with ridiculous statements can you ?
Are you accusing me of like multiple handles or something? I’m not exactly a new handle dude. Jesus.
 
Cog said:
Well,how about really tall guys and squatting?Years back there was this 5 foot tall Italian American that weighed 175 pounds.He could bench 500 and do 700 pound leg presses....with one leg.....
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Lots of guys at all heights can bench 500 lbs. I actually know a few that used to be able to to that. One tall one short. But picking one guy as an example of all short people is like saying every bodybuilder is Ronnie Coleman. See there was this one bodybuilder that could squat 800 lbs a month out from a show..... lol.

What I was talking about was actual proven physics and science. Something I had actually read in Muscular Development where there was an article talking about exactly what you had stated, and they actually had studies and biomechanics to prove otherwise. Now there are always outliers, but the average is what realky matters in this discussion.
 
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