First Cycle and Cut Thoughts


Lol since you like links

I didn’t say he shouldn’t
He has a goal
He has a plan
His goal and plan for first cycle is great

Why should he use primo LOL
I know, I posted it. I think test is a great first cycle and there is a strong case for it (I wouldn't change anything from my first).

But if your goal is cutting I think lower test + low primo is a better option. Especially since he's already on TRT.
 
I thought I would give an update about 9 weeks in. Results have been kinda fairly small but that's mostly because of my own doing/ bad luck. I kept to the original cut with 400mg/week split into ED shots.

First 5 weeks started off great was down 5lbs and I think I looked fuller ( probably water retention). Then I got sick for 2 1/2 weeks which completely messed up my diet and training. I also switched to 2x a week shots while sick just because I already had the flu and didn't want to pin everyday. I put 10lbs on in just these 2 weeks lol I am fairly certain its mostly water weight but more or less ruined the cycle by getting sick.

Got over the flu and planning on finishing the cycle strong but I am going to cut my dose to 350mg a week because the last few weeks I think my e2 has raised. Mood is great, sex drive is high as well but I have noticed a little bit more acne and water retention.

I was debating taking my AI I have on hand due to the water retention which I believe is from e2 but I think rather than adding in adex and worrying about dialing it in for the last few weeks Ill just drop my dosage a bit.

Gonna reduce dose to 350mg a week for the remaining 6 weeks and continue the cut. Very small strength increases and not much of a difference from just my TRT dosage but I think getting sick for nearly 3 weeks and having to stop the gym mid cycle screwed it.

Going forward I probably won't push test past 300-350mg in future cycles unless I am taking something like primo or mast with it so I can refrain from using an AI.

On a side note i've kept up with checking blood pressure, I had a 3 times I came back high, once @ 160 / 80 but a few minutes later was 145/76 and finally 130/70 when I rechecked 10 minutes later. I am thinking maybe it was just an error since I use an at home machine. Other than that the highest I got was 140/70 once but again rechecking a few minutes later it was down to 125/68. the other times I have taken it have all been between 120/57 and 136/70 which is similar to pre cycle and pre TRT. BP is something I am gonna keep my eye on because I also have Sleep Apnea.
 
I thought I would give an update about 9 weeks in. Results have been kinda fairly small but that's mostly because of my own doing/ bad luck. I kept to the original cut with 400mg/week split into ED shots.

First 5 weeks started off great was down 5lbs and I think I looked fuller ( probably water retention). Then I got sick for 2 1/2 weeks which completely messed up my diet and training. I also switched to 2x a week shots while sick just because I already had the flu and didn't want to pin everyday. I put 10lbs on in just these 2 weeks lol I am fairly certain its mostly water weight but more or less ruined the cycle by getting sick.

Got over the flu and planning on finishing the cycle strong but I am going to cut my dose to 350mg a week because the last few weeks I think my e2 has raised. Mood is great, sex drive is high as well but I have noticed a little bit more acne and water retention.

I was debating taking my AI I have on hand due to the water retention which I believe is from e2 but I think rather than adding in adex and worrying about dialing it in for the last few weeks Ill just drop my dosage a bit.

Gonna reduce dose to 350mg a week for the remaining 6 weeks and continue the cut. Very small strength increases and not much of a difference from just my TRT dosage but I think getting sick for nearly 3 weeks and having to stop the gym mid cycle screwed it.

Going forward I probably won't push test past 300-350mg in future cycles unless I am taking something like primo or mast with it so I can refrain from using an AI.

On a side note i've kept up with checking blood pressure, I had a 3 times I came back high, once @ 160 / 80 but a few minutes later was 145/76 and finally 130/70 when I rechecked 10 minutes later. I am thinking maybe it was just an error since I use an at home machine. Other than that the highest I got was 140/70 once but again rechecking a few minutes later it was down to 125/68. the other times I have taken it have all been between 120/57 and 136/70 which is similar to pre cycle and pre TRT. BP is something I am gonna keep my eye on because I also have Sleep Apnea.
Good to hear you're doing great bud, definitely keep an eye on the BP. I have BP problems genetically so I can relate.

Keep grinding brother.
 
Good to hear you're doing great bud, definitely keep an eye on the BP. I have BP problems genetically so I can relate.

Keep grinding brother.
I appreciate it man! Gonna try to make the most out of the last few weeks of the cycle before I get back to just TRT.

Yeah definitely something I am gonna keep my eye on. I think I should be able to lower it a bit with some more cardio, eating a little cleaner and being a little smarter like start taking fish oil again, making sure I use my CPAP every night, ect. Especially having sleep apnea which can raise it , i'm gonna monitor my BP closely. I want be as safe and healthy as I can.
 
Just a few points I feel I could add.

Imo I try to almost NEVER run ai or tren. There are easy workarounds for both.

If you do need an ai... Aromasin is a far better alternative than arimidex for a number of reasons.

It's probably too late but If I were you I'd stay at 400mg/week and just start dropping carbs to get rid of your bloat.

Generally in a cutting cycle the lower you bring your calories the higher you run the dosage. Dropping Ur dose, to me is kinda like admitting defeat. Whereas you could just switch gears in this same cycle into phase 2 and really make some magic happen in the form of leaving Ur test wherever its at 350 or 400...and adding equal dose of primo or mast e.

Mast will be cheaper by about 50%

I'd say if it's an actual full on cut (which you haven't posted your diet btw) then I'd use mast. If you want more of a recomp then primo will suit you better for that.
 
Figure its time for a proper update , a bit of a long one though,


The Update:

I stayed at 400mg and cleaned up my diet as Synyster recommend and cut out a lot of carbs most my bloat went away, finished up my blast with less than optimal results from a bad start do to getting sick for a few weeks right when it was getting into the blast properly ( week 5-8), did have an increase in strength compared to my TRT but also gained a solid 30 pounds over the course of 5 months due to getting sick , poor eating and a trip out of country, luckily not all of it was fat and I put on size and strength, its just I turned a cut, into a bulk.

Bringing me to my next part of my update, I am gonna be out of country ( in the US) for 6 months soon, talked to a doctor down there and was honest with the fact I was just finishing a blast. He offered to keep me at 400mg test a week. So I have a chance to really commit properly this time and am being monitored by a doctor.

So my new doc has me on 400mg test a week, 120mg deca ( he recommends it to all his patients but no more that 120mg a week) and after talking for a while and asking about what else they can prescribe in US, he mentioned commonly used are anavar and winstrol. I ended up adding in a very low dose of injectable winny. 50mg/ week. Injected 2 -3x a week. A very low dose that my doctor thinks I can run as long as my blood work comes back okay. I am taking NAC and milk thistle daily to support my liver, as per his recommendation. I could have went with 50mg a day oral but I thought doing a low dose injectable was a safer and smarter route and a lot cheaper lol

Doing bloods in 10 weeks to see where I am at, my doctor also gave me an adex script and said its up to me if i take, he personally uses it but only when needed. I decided to try it and noticed no difference, none at all, at 1mg split into 0.5mg two times a week. I decided to stay on it and see where my bloods put me. I aromitize a lot and gaining weight wouldn't have helped but for some reason I don't feel any high e2 symptoms other than acne and cutting carbs lower took away the bloating i was getting. And even on an AI I notice no change or crashed E2 symptoms. If it wasn't pharma I would have guessed the AI was fake lol

The downsides are its much more expensive to go through a script compared to UGL but with travelling I have no choice, gotta do things legit. I also like I am being monitored by a doctor since I have little experience with anything beyond TRT. The other downside is injectible winny should be classified as torture lol. Strong PIP and leaves a lump for a week after every injection. So for that reason once I finish what I bought I am dropping it.

I am in Canada for a few months before going back to US so I am gonna use UGL while in Canada to save my script for travelling. I have one vial of Jet labs Test i will use up and try, as well as do blood work on, and I recently ordered some Orion test just to cover me until I'm about to travel again and then back to pharma. I also decided to spare my ass the pain of injectible winny until I am back in the US, and while in Canada am just gonna take a low dose of Orion oral winny. Only 25mg a day. So basically just following my doctors protocol using UGL to save $$ while in Canada and changing out the injectable winny for oral in Canada also.

On that note both UGL i order from I had good experience with reps, especially Orion! Very friendly and helpful rep ! Ill be starting Orion as soon as it arrives for the next few weeks before switching to jets testosterone that I had laying around, I'll do my bloods to see how everything is , and then head to US.



The new plan:

So this time I am cutting, but my goal isn't 190-200lbs like originally was but instead 220lbs, although my failed first cut turned into a bulk, I probably over exaggerated by calling it a failure. I came back from vacation sitting at 249lbs but not to much of a higher body fat % compared to when I was 220 but still much higher than I would like to be. Honestly cutting back to 220 I think would leave me with a physique ill be happy with. Its been 5 weeks since I started my new and improved cut, and got down to 242lbs before thanksgiving which lead to me going back up a few pounds but currently sitting at 244lbs. so 5lbs down in 5 weeks! My weight hasn't moved much the last week (like 0.6lbs) but people I know say I am looking leaner and more muscular, even got some compliments on my arms ! Which is nice to hear after a rough start. My goal is 230lbs before I am in the US (14lbs in 11 weeks) and then continue down there to 220lbs and do kind of a recomp down there.


My workout split is the same but I will be busy in the US so will have to drop my work outs to 3-4 a week compared to 5-6 a week I will do here, on the bright side where I will be is super nice for walking so I will add in 30 minutes of cardio a day just for my heart health when down there.


My calories: I am eating 2000 calories a day and 200g of protein. The rest is mostly fat and a few carbs.


Here is yesterdays diet for example :

Greek yogurt 100cal -17g protein
Protein powder mixed in 160cal - 22g protein
Protein powder drink in water - 120 cal - 24 g protein

Greek Yogurt again 100-17
Protein powder mixed in again 160 -22

250 gram chicken breast with some seasoning 413cal and 78g protein
1 cup (before cooked) white rice - 640 calories 12g protein

One soft ginger cookie - 120 calories as a treat lol

just under 2000 calories and 200g of protein

I should have done a little less carbs and a little more fat but its just one days example. I usually don;t have greek yogurt twice a day it was just because it was expiring lol.



Strength has also been increasing still. For example the other day maxed out my bench at 280lbs for 1 and repping 225 for 10 for multiple sets, which is nothing compared to most the guys here but its nice to see progress especially when cutting and im getting closer to that 315 mark where I finally will feel like I'm a decent lifter lol



So far everything is going well ! I have no complaints or really any questions, happy I have a doctor to monitor me, and figured I would post an update to track my own progress, and keep myself motivate and give myself a reason to not repeat my last mistakes! More of an update for myself.

I should also say I don't plan to stay on these dosages forever even if doctor prescribed and monitored, when I am back in Canada I will cut back to 200mg, even if my blood work is all good and I am not taking any crazy amounts, I would rather not take huge risks. That being said my doctor said he has guys run the exact same dosages year around with no issues, and he take nearly the same amounts himself.


And finally , I bought a much better blood pressure machine and stay around 120/70. So no issues there. The high readings previously seem to have just been due to using a cheap machine.


Should be my last update for the next 8ish months unless my bloods come back off and then ill fill in all my progress.
 
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I see you have problems with your bloat like me. Just a suggestion, add in a fibre supplement to keep things moving. This stuff is great twice a day.
 

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I'm liking some of the ideas here similar advice to my first cycle post. I was advised to stick to test first cycle.
I was just reading that last bit and you told your doctor you were just finished a blast and he's going to keep you on 400 a week test plus 120 deca plus Winny.
Sign me the fuck up haha! Just kidding isn't that a little reckless on his behalf? Shouldn't you have a bit of a break first?
Am I missing something maybe read things wrong idk
 
I see you have problems with your bloat like me. Just a suggestion, add in a fibre supplement to keep things moving. This stuff is great twice a day.
Thanks man, I actually have 2 single serving packs I got from a supplement source order as a freebie and never tried lol. Ill give it a try and look it up!
Its a good idea
 
I'm liking some of the ideas here similar advice to my first cycle post. I was advised to stick to test first cycle.
I was just reading that last bit and you told your doctor you were just finished a blast and he's going to keep you on 400 a week test plus 120 deca plus Winny.
Sign me the fuck up haha! Just kidding isn't that a little reckless on his behalf? Shouldn't you have a bit of a break first?
Am I missing something maybe read things wrong idk
I definitely think test only is the way to go for a first cycle. And that's what I did as well for my first 15 weeks.

Yup Doctors in the US are a lot different than here haha

I was already on TRT and we went over my blood work on 200mg/week, how I was feeling on 400mg a week, he basically told me (i'm paraphrasing a bit) that as long as your blood work shows no issues and your feeling good with no symptoms, you can stay on year long ( with these dosages). The deca is more a therapeutic dosage and even the winny is 1/7th a normal body builders dosage.

Even still I gotta make sure my diets on point, adding in some cardio, taking extra supplements to support liver, donate blood every 4-6 months, its more like its a privilege to go above normal TRT and the moments your bloods come back with issues you lose that privileged.

Some TRT clinics in the US will put you on 400mg test / week no issues off the start if you are willing to pay and even add in 200mg/week deca and keep you there forever. I think i've seen some offer dbol too lol so compared to some clinics my doctor is liberal with what he is offering but conservative in dosages and focuses on harm reduction. I also had two separate hour long phone appointments going over everything and asking every question I had before I even paid him or started and any issues or questions I can text his office and get a reply quickly.

I can see what you mean though, I think any AAS use is reckless to an extent but still I feel its safer this way though since ill be doing blood work on blast and have a doctor I can talk to about it and work towards preventing any issues that may occur.
 
Thought i'd post an update , albeit a boring one, stayed at my TRT+ until December when I injured myself. Dislocated my knee on a hike and in the process fractured it and fully tore my MPFL and another ligament I cant remember lol . Dropped down to just 200mg of test and 100mg of deca and dropped the winny.

Was out of the gym for a while and ballooned up to 256lbs, Ive since dropped to 238lbs and stayed here. My physique has still recomped a bit but been busy with life and in March dislocated my knee again and was out the gym another few weeks.

Last month I've dropped Deca and just went back to 200mg test / week . On the bright side since October ive still gotten slightly leaner and look more muscular and even have had 2 people ask if I was natty lol so even just TRT is working well. My body fat is still higher than I'd like, I haven't tested it but its gotta be in the 20's. I am 238lbs at around 6 foot 1.

Currently now that life has calmed down just gonna go back to my goal of cutting down to 220lbs on TRT and reassessing my goals from there.

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 763 (ng/dL) Range : 250 -1100

TESTOSTERONE, FREE 221.1 (pg/mL) Range: 35 - 155

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 11 (nmol/L) Range : 10-50

ESTRADIOL 50 (pg/mL) Range: < or = 39

^ current bloods on 200mg pharma Test a week pinned once and tested at a 7 day trough. E2 a little high but I am not taking an AI and no high E2 symptoms. Total test is a lot lower than I expected but free test is fairly high and above range. So ill go back to pinning 2x a week to control my E2 and hopefully keep my total test a little higher and free test a little lower.

Everything else looked good but slightly high hematocrit so gonna donate some blood soon.
 
Make sure you have adex on hand. You just never know. I never have any issues either but I still keep it on hand. And usually around the 8-10 week mark I’ll start to get acne , I’ll take half an adex on injection days and no more pimples .
 
Thought i'd post an update , albeit a boring one, stayed at my TRT+ until December when I injured myself. Dislocated my knee on a hike and in the process fractured it and fully tore my MPFL and another ligament I cant remember lol . Dropped down to just 200mg of test and 100mg of deca and dropped the winny.

Was out of the gym for a while and ballooned up to 256lbs, Ive since dropped to 238lbs and stayed here. My physique has still recomped a bit but been busy with life and in March dislocated my knee again and was out the gym another few weeks.

Last month I've dropped Deca and just went back to 200mg test / week . On the bright side since October ive still gotten slightly leaner and look more muscular and even have had 2 people ask if I was natty lol so even just TRT is working well. My body fat is still higher than I'd like, I haven't tested it but its gotta be in the 20's. I am 238lbs at around 6 foot 1.

Currently now that life has calmed down just gonna go back to my goal of cutting down to 220lbs on TRT and reassessing my goals from there.

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 763 (ng/dL) Range : 250 -1100

TESTOSTERONE, FREE 221.1 (pg/mL) Range: 35 - 155

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 11 (nmol/L) Range : 10-50

ESTRADIOL 50 (pg/mL) Range: < or = 39

^ current bloods on 200mg pharma Test a week pinned once and tested at a 7 day trough. E2 a little high but I am not taking an AI and no high E2 symptoms. Total test is a lot lower than I expected but free test is fairly high and above range. So ill go back to pinning 2x a week to control my E2 and hopefully keep my total test a little higher and free test a little lower.

Everything else looked good but slightly high hematocrit so gonna donate some blood soon.
How old are you? I think you should rehabilitate your knee until it fully regains strength and structure. I hurt my ankles and knees all the time skateboarding when I was young and I can definitely feel the brittleness and tightness now in my early forties.

Injury sucks at any age though.
 
Make sure you have adex on hand. You just never know. I never have any issues either but I still keep it on hand. And usually around the 8-10 week mark I’ll start to get acne , I’ll take half an adex on injection days and no more pimples .
100% ! I do keep some on hand, like you said you never know. I even kept some pharma caber and some ugl prami on hand incase of prolactin sides from the Deca. Definitely better to be safe then sorry, been learning a lot from this board .
 
How old are you? I think you should rehabilitate your knee until it fully regains strength and structure. I hurt my ankles and knees all the time skateboarding when I was young and I can definitely feel the brittleness and tightness now in my early forties.

Injury sucks at any age though.
I'm fairly young compared to most the guys here, only 24. I was doing physio and had good progress but due to traveling I had to stop. But since I've dislocated for a 2nd time in a few months when my schedule settles down i'm gonna try to go back to phsyio , my doctor recommended seeing a surgeon to see if they would repair the ligaments but I just didnt have the time.

You are right though, it is something I should focus on so it wont cause issues later down the road.
 
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