When do you have too much muscle for Sports?

I think I know who ur talking about but he was just a beast strong man but than trained for mma for years before taking his first fight he didn’t just go right from strongman to mma that wouldn’t work
 
At UFC last night Rodolfo Vieiro gassed and lost by submission. He is arguably one of the greatest grapplers in the last 10 years...7 world titles. He fought at 185 but according to people i know he was just under 220 fight time. He definitely takes advantage of testing policies where you are good if free test is under 1200.

Clearly to me the size game hurt him...the big muscles used way too much oxygen and he could not sustain the pace...as he owned and out classed the guy for the first 4 minutes of the fight and then faded fast. I truly believe he would have been better conditioned for this fight if he walked around at 195-200 and cut to 185. The extra 20 lbs 200 to 220 is just not necessary.

Thoughts...can you be big and have stamina? I don't know of an example where this is true from any sport. Strength is an advantage but only to a point.
say what now?
 
I dont know if its been said already but having a LOT of muscle means your body requires a LOT of oxygen. Your O2 needs are higher than someone that has a moderate amount of muscle so in a sport that needs stamina and is not done in short bursts you might be at a disadvantage with a lot of muscle.
 
say what now?

I need to research this a little more closely and read the USADA policy but Have you noticed how ridiculously in shape and the guys are starting to look again in the UFC. From what I understand for AAS they test for metabolites but for testosterone they don’t test for anything other than your free test level and it could be up to what the US consider normal 1200.

Lol for me 1200 would be north of 250mg per week.


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say what now?
Yoel Romero Paulo costa vitor be in
I need to research this a little more closely and read the USADA policy but Have you noticed how ridiculously in shape and the guys are starting to look again in the UFC. From what I understand for AAS they test for metabolites but for testosterone they don’t test for anything other than your free test level and it could be up to what the US consider normal 1200.

Lol for me 1200 would be north of 250mg per week.


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paulo Costa Yoel Romero who is 44 years old LOL I think cus Yoel wrestled at such a high level olympics and what not he was already dealing with USADa and knows a way to beat the test cus that guy has one of the best physiques ever and he’s near 45 can’t wait to see him in bellator now he’s gonna run the 205 division
 
I need to research this a little more closely and read the USADA policy but Have you noticed how ridiculously in shape and the guys are starting to look again in the UFC. From what I understand for AAS they test for metabolites but for testosterone they don’t test for anything other than your free test level and it could be up to what the US consider normal 1200.

Lol for me 1200 would be north of 250mg per week.


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Yeah please look into that, I'd be interested in what you find out.

AFAIK, and things may have changed recently unbeknownst to me, it doesn't work like that at all. Hang onto your shorts because if this is a new fact to anyone reading it may just be hard to accept.

There is no limit for Testosterone levels of any sort.

You read that right. Your Testosterone level could be 5000ng/dl and you would not get failed for that.

What they test for initially is Testosterone to EpiTestosterone ratio. If the ratio is too high then they retest using the CIR(Carbon Isotope Ratio) method which can tell exogenous from endogenous T. Exo = fail, Endog = pass

I believe it is about being cost effective, the T:E test is cheap compared to CIR.

Test and EpiTest are generally going to be in the 1:1or2 range in healthy men depending on some genetic factors and they have up to allowed a 1:4 in the past although I think this has changed recently but I cant't remember , 1:6 maybe? If your ratio is up there their is a very high chance something fishy is going on.

2more cents-

It should be harder to get away with shit now that they are using the biological passport with the testing.

On the other hand I saw a recent video (MPMD?) where a study was discussed that said something along the lines of that some significant portion of men could do 300mg/week of Test and not trip the T:E ratio
 
I was watching this fight, and by the last minute or so of the 1st, you could see he was done. he became so exhausted that he ended up tapping in the 2nd to a choke that he probably could have gotten out of by his second year of training.

Not being part of his training camp, i couldn't say for sure - but it was probably a combination of way too much muscle and a huge weight cut. He either needs to shed some muscle or go up a weight class, because no one should be gassing that fast. (Personally, I'd choose the first option of dropping some muscle.)

*** PS - being such a seasoned grappler, he most likely already has such an incredible squeeze and overall strength that there's no need for the extra muscle.

However, what do i know - i was a muay thai guy with zero grappling training :sneaky:
 
When your name is Mariusz Pudzianowski, that's when your too big! View attachment 13039
Thanks OM!!!!

this was who I was referring to. One of the most dominant strongmen ever..... not good in mma.

Not good to start - but have to acknowledge the potential danger of his size and strength When fresh.... however there’s about 20-30 seconds in that tank.... It’s never pretty.... but survive that first 20 seconds (which almost any decently accomplished fighter should be able to do - nevermind a professional). then it gets really sloppy and ugly. That gets exposed very quickly.

big and strong will never touch experienced fighter. If it ever does.... it’s lucky

Ive said it in many of these threads over the years.... as a kid at 185 I was a handful. I kick boxed for a few years. Wasn’t anything but I did ok in some club fights and it was fun. It never got past that so a “handful” is relative to where I was at. Any decent fighter would still feed me my lunch Lol.....but outside those circles I did well if it ever came about.

I played both hockey and baseball at high levels before injuries limited that. Part of the reason I gravitated to bodybuilding.

230 and above.... meh pretty damn sloppy. Now old, even more busted and into the 260s ..... fucking forget it. Useless. I can barely even throw a baseball.... forget playing baseball.

I can still move some pretty decent iron though. But that’s all I got lol!

I can totally relate to what @storman said. Reading it made me both laugh and cry because
Lol!
 
Yeah please look into that, I'd be interested in what you find out.

AFAIK, and things may have changed recently unbeknownst to me, it doesn't work like that at all. Hang onto your shorts because if this is a new fact to anyone reading it may just be hard to accept.

There is no limit for Testosterone levels of any sort.

You read that right. Your Testosterone level could be 5000ng/dl and you would not get failed for that.

What they test for initially is Testosterone to EpiTestosterone ratio. If the ratio is too high then they retest using the CIR(Carbon Isotope Ratio) method which can tell exogenous from endogenous T. Exo = fail, Endog = pass

I believe it is about being cost effective, the T:E test is cheap compared to CIR.

Test and EpiTest are generally going to be in the 1:1or2 range in healthy men depending on some genetic factors and they have up to allowed a 1:4 in the past although I think this has changed recently but I cant't remember , 1:6 maybe? If your ratio is up there their is a very high chance something fishy is going on.

2more cents-

It should be harder to get away with shit now that they are using the biological passport with the testing.

On the other hand I saw a recent video (MPMD?) where a study was discussed that said something along the lines of that some significant portion of men could do 300mg/week of Test and not trip the T:E ratio
Ya I actually read that as well and that’s fuckin crazy because that’s what I took last fight and I feel that’s optimal dose for Muay Thai or mma or bjj not to much but definatley not to little either
 
Thanks OM!!!!

this was who I was referring to. One of the most dominant strongmen ever..... not good in mma.

Not good to start - but have to acknowledge the potential danger of his size and strength When fresh.... however there’s about 20-30 seconds in that tank.... It’s never pretty.... but survive that first 20 seconds (which almost any decently accomplished fighter should be able to do - nevermind a professional). then it gets really sloppy and ugly. That gets exposed very quickly.

big and strong will never touch experienced fighter. If it ever does.... it’s lucky

Ive said it in many of these threads over the years.... as a kid at 185 I was a handful. I kick boxed for a few years. Wasn’t anything but I did ok in some club fights and it was fun. It never got past that so a “handful” is relative to where I was at. Any decent fighter would still feed me my lunch Lol.....but outside those circles I did well if it ever came about.

I played both hockey and baseball at high levels before injuries limited that. Part of the reason I gravitated to bodybuilding.

230 and above.... meh pretty damn sloppy. Now old, even more busted and into the 260s ..... fucking forget it. Useless. I can barely even throw a baseball.... forget playing baseball.

I can still move some pretty decent iron though. But that’s all I got lol!

I can totally relate to what @storman said. Reading it made me both laugh and cry because
Lol!
Im not disagreeing with you because pusdanosky does suck.. bit he has won 13 fights. Also the meme is a 145lb guy fighting someone 300lbs.. pudanosky was fighting heavyweights at least
 
Thoughts on what? If Ryan hall would strangle that idiot and punch his face in? LOL in a fuckin heart beat the body builder would have zero fuckin chance not just because he dosent know what to do but also he would spaz and gas that’s what all u trained ppl do this is also a very very silly question I’ve got 16 year old 160 lbs at my gym that would absolutely molest that steroid guy LOL it wouldnt even be a scrap it would be a sexual assault haha if u think I’m to sure just go to a boxing gym and ask to spar. ReLly good small guy to test uraelf LOL ull see........my first bjj class I was 250 jacked juiced to the gills new to martial arts I’m like wtf I’m gonna toss these little twerps around and boy was I ever wrong😆😆😆😆 after being choked about 20 times. And feeling totally useless I decided I better learn this these little guys are literally letting me live hahaha I used to be under this false impression cus I was huge and a beast in the weight pit I could fuck up fighters LOL believe me I was very wrong
Made the same bad assumption my first class as well. First roll tried to bench press someone off of me - lost an arm real quick LOL. There's a deference between being heavy and feeling heavy. We have little 150 pounders that feel like 300 pounds. I agree with you about S&C for combat sports - if you want to get better at Muay Thai or BJJ - do Muay Thai or BJJ and lots of it.
 
This isn't just MMA specific.

I know how many of you follow the NFL, but a decade ago there was a wide receiver named David Boston who was a prolific college player and was quite good early in his NFL career. Towards the end he started getting into bodybuilding. He got too big for his position. Probably should've moved to tight end but his transformation was too fast. Lost his off the line quickness, his ability to make people miss, nd eventually ended up with a myriad of injuries with the last injustice getting suspended for PED use.

 
I need to research this a little more closely and read the USADA policy but Have you noticed how ridiculously in shape and the guys are starting to look again in the UFC. From what I understand for AAS they test for metabolites but for testosterone they don’t test for anything other than your free test level and it could be up to what the US consider normal 1200.

Lol for me 1200 would be north of 250mg per week.


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That’s trt lol
 
Made the same bad assumption my first class as well. First roll tried to bench press someone off of me - lost an arm real quick LOL. There's a deference between being heavy and feeling heavy. We have little 150 pounders that feel like 300 pounds. I agree with you about S&C for combat sports - if you want to get better at Muay Thai or BJJ - do Muay Thai or BJJ and lots of it.
Agree...i lift for ascetics and balance (work the muscles not used in Jiu Jitsu)...I don't believe in these fad S&C programs. You want to get in shape for your sport...practice the sport. Many of my student want to do S&C especially during a fight camp because its easier than sparring, rolling or positional drilling. My main issue with S&C is that you get too many over use injuries because the exercises selected work the same muscles you use in training and they get over worked.
 
I have two rules when it comes to S&C coaches who want to train my athletes:
1. you better be or have been a competitive athlete in the sport - if not then you have no clue what high performance means for that sport
2. the skills coach is the boss - here's where many S&C coaches f up, they think they can drive performance better than the skills coach. if the athlete can't do skills training at an acceptable level due to training fatigue or injury then the S&C coach f'd up.
 
Made the same bad assumption my first class as well. First roll tried to bench press someone off of me - lost an arm real quick LOL. There's a deference between being heavy and feeling heavy. We have little 150 pounders that feel like 300 pounds. I agree with you about S&C for combat sports - if you want to get better at Muay Thai or BJJ - do Muay Thai or BJJ and lots of it.
Straight up
Bro end of story!..........my coach has 100 pro fights under his belt 3 world titles and he’s A big name in coaching Muay Thai this guy cringes when he hears about strength and conditioning LOL he like fuck mate hit pads do drills spar clinch nvm weights
 
I have two rules when it comes to S&C coaches who want to train my athletes:
1. you better be or have been a competitive athlete in the sport - if not then you have no clue what high performance means for that sport
2. the skills coach is the boss - here's where many S&C coaches f up, they think they can drive performance better than the skills coach. if the athlete can't do skills training at an acceptable level due to training fatigue or injury then the S&C coach f'd up.
Straight the fuck up! So many a and c experts by they’re own accord that have never even played the sport that theyre “conditioning” atheletes for it’s a fuckin joke
 
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