Test only cycles

BanditNOLIMIT

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Trusted Member
I'm toying around with the idea of a potential cycle.

Traditionally, I've always used Test at a low-moderate dose (300-500mg weekly) with Primo or Masteron (up to around 800mg). I'm also an enjoyer of GH and insulin (when appropriate) in the mix.

I've always noticed a direct correlation between how much Test i'm using and how strong I get. Now I understand building muscle isn't all about getting stronger, but I know that when I'm beating my numbers on weekly basis, I'm growing my most effectively.

My main issue is that my estrogen creeps up very high. For example, the peak doses of my last cycle were 420mg Test with 840mg Masteron weekly. My estrogen levels exceeded the reference range 4x. Primo has also had negligible impact in lowering my estrogen. I was brought up in a world of PEDs that heavily frowned upon AI use, as a result i've avoided them for the most part. I've come to a point where I'd like to try implementing them.

I've been curious about high dose Test only cycles. Nothing extreme, maybe around 700mg per week and maybe up from there. I suspect i'll have to take 1mg of arimidex ED or EOD. I'll be shooting from the hip with the dosing protocol.

I've heard of people swearing by Test prop. Claiming it creates less aromatization, has a different "mental effect" for lack of better terms and overall just "hits" different than long esters. Has anyone tried both and can shine some light on whether or not Prop would be worth while trying?
 
I'm following too, just curious why choose arimidex over aromasin? Neither is better then the other just work differently. Awesome that using masteron, has helped you this far. I found it to be such a headache dialing in estrogen using primo but I guess if you do mid cycle blood work that helps.
 
I'm following too, just curious why choose arimidex over aromasin? Neither is better then the other just work differently. Awesome that using masteron, has helped you this far. I found it to be such a headache dialing in estrogen using primo but I guess if you do mid cycle blood work that helps.
Aromasin isn’t off the table but I’ve used it a little in the past, I found it didn’t really pack a punch if that makes sense? Maybe I wasn’t dosing it too conservatively but it didn’t seem to be too effective. I’m hoping arimidex would be a heavier hitter.

I wouldn’t say masteron ever helped me in terms of estrogen control. Like I mentioned in the OP, my estrogen was really high even using 840mg of mast.
 
I'm currently doing exactly this right now. I started with 250mg test e eod. 0.25mg arimidex eod eventually up to 0.5mg eod. I felt the estrogen was a tad higher than i wanted so i lowered the test to 200mg eod and this was the right mix for morning wood, no oily skin etc. Test only works great for me, no weird mental sides to contend with and estrogen is easy to control. Plus it's inexpensive.

I don't understand the anti AI trend and using mast as an AI which it isnt. In some it does indeed lower estrogen but in others it acts almost like a SERM from what i understand. Nothing wrong with proper use of AIs IMO as long as you dont crush your estrogen. DHT family drugs are notorious for messing up lipids so they're not necessarily healthier either.

Because of how quickly prop metabolizes you would get faster aromatization. The shorter the ester, the faster it metabolizes.
The faster it metabolizes the faster it aromatizes.

If you cant control estrogen with arimidex use something stronger like letrozole. If you still cant control it, EQ is a good alternative to test. Simply replace the extra/problematic test you want to run with EQ and thats it.

Currently on week 5, and I'll be switching things up soon. Possibly:
125mg test cyp
100mg boldenone cyp
20mg tren ace
All injected EOD.
 
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I liked high test only cycles. I did this when i was not cutting and did well with it for years. I dont like eq or deca, ment was ok, orals were fun but i never relied on them, primo is boring as fuck, mast hurts on prostate.
If my bp was still good and my pecker worked, then i never worried too much about my estrogen numbers. Keep in mind, gyno has never been an issue for me.
I would use adex a couple times a week if i felt i needed it. Test only i find it much easier to keep sexual function going. Adding other compounds on top is when it became more difficult to dial in.
 
Morning @BanditNOLIMIT - never took test at that dosage but I would suggest slowly ramping it up and seeing if you do have estrogen issues. By the sounds of it, you will.
Your an educated member but all the same - there is more test in test prop then test cyp and enan. Doesn't matter what the bottle says, there is more actual testosterone due to the ester. I have read the same with short esters not automatizing as much and that is worth a shot with EOD injections or 3 per week injections. DIM may help you - for some it is a natural AI that aids in keeping your estrogen down.
Never used AI's or SERMS but always have them on hand. If I had to pick an AI to start with, I would pick Aromasin for my own reasons. Dosages will depend on you but like the test, start low as you can always go down.
If you hit yourself too hard, you may crush your estrogen. I have used DIM, B-6 for prolactin, P-5-P and never had the need but I wasn't in the higher end range like you and @CoolRick.
My only symptoms is my nipples get more sensitive as my body adjusts to a higher dose - say if I want to use 250 mg/week vs. 100 but my body adjusts and it does away. I still have a sachet of Arim, Arom, and Nolvadex if needed plus in a pinch if I ever needed something stronger I could reach out to friends here or ones I know and trust and periodically train with.
I concur 100% on the amount of test and strength. I will admit I use to mix in a little Primo as I found I kept more of the gains I was making in size and strength but you know all this anyway. I never surpassed 400-500 per week and those were pyramid short cycle days years ago. Now I just ramp it up slowly by 50 mg a week until the dosage I want which is not remotely close to yours. All the same, I felt stronger, could lift more, and lift longer.

I won't give real life experience advice on AI's or SERMS because I have never needed them but if I did, I wouldn't hesitate but my estrogen would have to creep up pretty high with symptoms before I would consider it. I don't have an issue with higher estrogen numbers (not 4 times norm) but high end of normal or just over. I can only state what I was told if I needed them my guys who have gyno issues and aromatize more. Sounds like @CoolRick has real life experience and can advise on a starting dosage better. Not my wheelhouse - just what I read and listened to.
Much like @storman Deca and boldenone are not fav's of mine due to the fact they kill my sex drive. I love the strength gains and size gains with Deca/NPP but the better half doesn't like it lol. I like Primo simply because it improves my blood numbers, increases my sex drive, and I notice a difference but it is mild and expensive.

Good luck
 
I'm currently doing exactly this right now. I started with 250mg test e eod. 0.25mg arimidex eod eventually up to 0.5mg eod. I felt the estrogen was a tad higher than i wanted so i lowered the test to 200mg eod and this was the right mix for morning wood, no oily skin etc. Test only works great for me, no weird mental sides to contend with and estrogen is easy to control. Plus it's inexpensive.

I don't understand the anti AI trend and using mast as an AI which it isnt. In some it does indeed lower estrogen but in others it acts almost like a SERM from what i understand. Nothing wrong with proper use of AIs IMO as long as you dont crush your estrogen. DHT family drugs are notorious for messing up lipids so they're not necessarily healthier either.

Because of how quickly prop metabolizes you would get faster aromatization. The shorter the ester, the faster it metabolizes.
The faster it metabolizes the faster it aromatizes.

If you cant control estrogen with arimidex use something stronger like letrozole. If you still cant control it, EQ is a good alternative to test. Simply replace the extra/problematic test you want to run with EQ and thats it.

Currently on week 5, and I'll be switching things up soon. Possibly:
125mg test cyp
100mg boldenone cyp
20mg tren ace
All injected EOD.
Thanks for the insight.

I think AI use is often associated with abuse. People being close minded and assuming everyone using an AI is crushing their estrogen into the ground.

For what reason are you switching your protocol around? Desiring a different result?
 
Nice think about adex is it works fast. So if oyu feel a creep it will handle it faster. I prefer adex because aromasin makes me feel like crap.

IMO you do get less estrogen conversion with prop at a lower dosage, but I have never ran 700 mg of prop a week, only 175 max, so I am not sure how much of a difference there would be at that dose. I saw the estrogen reduction on bloodwork. It was only a slight difference.

Myself I would run 200 test with 400 primo, no estrogen conversion and you may find you'll be almost as strong and no sides.
 
Nice think about adex is it works fast. So if oyu feel a creep it will handle it faster. I prefer adex because aromasin makes me feel like crap.

IMO you do get less estrogen conversion with prop at a lower dosage, but I have never ran 700 mg of prop a week, only 175 max, so I am not sure how much of a difference there would be at that dose. I saw the estrogen reduction on bloodwork. It was only a slight difference.

Myself I would run 200 test with 400 primo, no estrogen conversion and you may find you'll be almost as strong and no sides.
How does aromasin make you feel? I'm trying it out for the first time and feel kind of crappy too
 
How does aromasin make you feel? I'm trying it out for the first time and feel kind of crappy too
I can't explain it, just crappy. Once I stop about 3 days later it goes away. It creeps up after a few doses to crappiness, lol. I know if you have breast cancer, if you react bad to the one drug they change you to the other. Happened to my sister in law.
 
Thanks for the insight.

I think AI use is often associated with abuse. People being close minded and assuming everyone using an AI is crushing their estrogen into the ground.

For what reason are you switching your protocol around? Desiring a different result?
You're welcome. I agree i think AIs are being misused and there was a time where everyone was afraid of growing boobs overnight(they still are lol). Now I think people are slowly being educated on the fact you need some estrogen.

As far as me changing my protocol? I like to switch things up every 6-8 weeks, it keeps things fresh. Plus a little bit of tren i think will help me with my recomping goals.
 
When I used to use steroids, AI was quite interesting to me, I never dove into the reasoning but for some reason letrozole and aromas was the only AI that worked well for me. Arimidex never worked to mitigate side effects even though it dropped my E2.

Perhaps it has something to do with E1 and E3 which are never talked about, but I assume also increase significantly with high testosterone from PEDs
 
I have done many test only cycles in my youth. With great results. When i did i used test suspension to a max 100mg EOD. I also like prop. It is so easy to manage dosages when its in and out so fast. If you hit issues, you can back off and only need a little AI to correct.

I have not experienced more sides with short eater test compared to test E or C. In fact i just listed to a podcast by a dr that said you are stable with C and E but levels are suppose to dip at night and keeping test stable through the evening causes the body to have higher than normal SHGB levels…thus taking you off you natural T/E ratio.

On cycle i have no concerns with AIs when needed. I don’t believe they come with more heart risks than anabolic. I have not seen good literature to suggest otherwise. I have had good success with both adex and asin. I like how little adex i have to use and i like the quick impact (compared to asin).

Short Esther test plus adex when needed allows you to make adjustments without having to ride out a storm.

i have changed my views on higher E2 and believe the heart protective properties should not be underestimated.
 
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Aromasin isn’t off the table but I’ve used it a little in the past, I found it didn’t really pack a punch if that makes sense? Maybe I wasn’t dosing it too conservatively but it didn’t seem to be too effective. I’m hoping arimidex would be a heavier hitter.

I wouldn’t say masteron ever helped me in terms of estrogen control. Like I mentioned in the OP, my estrogen was really high even using 840mg of mast.
Aromasin is a suiside inhibitor and takes weeks to reach full effectivness. Like the tortoise and the hare the suicide inhibitor is slow and steady however if it's overdone the estrogen crash is big time. I like it because it binds not blocks. I would rather play with a bit of Letro then Arimidex.

Prop has a higher level of bioavailability- I can't find the chart however E/C is around 72 or something like that and prop around 81ish so quite a bit so it will "hit" harder.
 
I have done many test only cycles in my youth. With great results. When i did i used test suspension to a max 100mg EOD. I also like prop. It is so easy to manage dosages when its in and out so fast. If you hit issues, you can back off and only need a little AI to correct.

I have not experienced more sides with short eater test compared to test E or C. In fact i just listed to a podcast by a dr that said you are stable with C and E but levels are suppose to dip at night and keeping test stable through the evening causes the body to have higher than normal SHGB levels…thus taking you off you natural T/E ratio.

On cycle i have no concerns with AIs when needed. I don’t believe they come with more heart risks than anabolic. I have not seen good literature to suggest otherwise. I have had good success with both adex and asin. I like how little adex i have to use and i like the quick impact (compared to asin).

Short Esther test plus adex when needed allows you to make adjustments without having to ride out a storm.

i have changed my views on higher E2 and believe the heart protective properties should not be underestimated.
I'm not arguing, you are way more experienced than I am but I always thought testosterone peaked during sleep, I read that once and just a quick Google brought this up:
Plasma testosterone levels display circadian variation, peaking during sleep, and reaching a nadir in the late afternoon, with a superimposed ultradian rhythm with pulses every 90 min reflecting the underlying rhythm of pulsatile luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion.
 
I'm following too, just curious why choose arimidex over aromasin? Neither is better then the other just work differently. Awesome that using masteron, has helped you this far. I found it to be such a headache dialing in estrogen using primo but I guess if you do mid cycle blood work that helps.
My opinion is that aromasin is better. Arimidex always made me feel sick. Recent vig steve vid on ai gave me n insight into why. I believe its something about arimidex causing issues with bile ducts or something of that sort. Having inflamatory bowel disease, that something that would be i think a noticable issue. Maybe the reason it made me feel sick always. Aromasin and letro do not have this issue. The video also says the effectiveness of each for men, not women, like most people seem to get confused. Side effects aswell. And like i said arimidex is the least favorable imo. Aromasin for low converters and letro for high converters. One cam use mast or primo to a certain point as weel but those also have sides people pretend do not exist lol. My 2 cents. Sorry it was long lol
 
I'm not arguing, you are way more experienced than I am but I always thought testosterone peaked during sleep, I read that once and just a quick Google brought this up:
Plasma testosterone levels display circadian variation, peaking during sleep, and reaching a nadir in the late afternoon, with a superimposed ultradian rhythm with pulses every 90 min reflecting the underlying rhythm of pulsatile luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion.
no worries, challenge away...it is widely accepted that your natural testosterone levels peak between 7-10am and then fall throughout the day. All other hormones follow test. That is why doctors do a Testosterone AM test. Test prop (& suspension) peak within hours and prop is fully metabolized within 2 days. Test C & E if pinned regularly provides much more stable levels which is different than natural production or prop pinned EOD. individuals can decide if this is good or bad for them based on the BW markers.

You might be missing my point though. For me, convenience aside, i preferred test prop when at dosages above TRT. If i run into issues you can reduce dosage and make adjustments quicker. Likewise, with adex i am a strong responder to it so i can take a small dosage, once per week and get a quick response. So i find managing issues much easier with the combo of prop and adex. With Test C & E plus asin, you have to be patient and ride out the storm for a couple of weeks. Most people are not that patient so take to much asin (dosage or frequency) and over compensate creating a roller coaster effect.
 
I'm not arguing, you are way more experienced than I am but I always thought testosterone peaked during sleep, I read that once and just a quick Google brought this up:
Plasma testosterone levels display circadian variation, peaking during sleep, and reaching a nadir in the late afternoon, with a superimposed ultradian rhythm with pulses every 90 min reflecting the underlying rhythm of pulsatile luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion.
When taking testostrone, we have no pulse so there would be no nighttime peak.
 
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