Test Enth vs Test Cyp...what was your experience?

Food is always 80% of it …
lol, I think it’s 40%, 40% training, 20% gear.
Eating is the toughest thing to master though. So yeah 80% on the toughness scale.

Truthfully taking gear, eating and training is a fucking grind. But the outcome of how your body responds is exciting.
 
One could make a safe assumption that one is drier then the other through the half lifes of each, but in actuality, it does not matter, thats where the part comes in there's other things to worry about, like diet and training etc.

The half lifes and the dryness can be manipulated with injection frequency, making both test e and test c pretty much equal aside from one molecule change making one a longer half life then the other.

You had made a suggestion on another fourm where you said you dont get why guys inject more frequently. So ill go in to further detail and clean that up right hear.

You use prop? What happens if you inject prop once a week or twice a week? Will you stay dry or will you hold on to some water due to the continuous up and down peaks, causing aromatization,Ill say youll hold water eventually.

But injections every second day or every day you may not hold any water and you may not aromatize much at all, you may even not aromatize enough to keep a perfect balance of test to estrogen, this will depend on the person.

So if i take test e and test c and inject everyday, i can manipulate them so that i get the same results as if there the same , realistically i can inject test e and test c everyday and get the same results as using test prop everyday, there will be a continuous peak of testosterone and the estrogen will fall in line. The difference is the half lifes and how long the ester lasts, if we wanna pct thats the only time it really matters in my opinion.

Injections of prop test c test e everyday can pretty much yield the same results, so injection frequency matters to some. Depends on what your going after, if your bulking then you want the extra water to help feed your mucles, this is where the injection frequency may change to allow the extra water.

Its all about your goals and how you wanna manipulate the esters.

Hope your well as well🙂
Thank you for the thought process as to why you think there is a difference. I am in the @biguglynewf camp and don't worry so much about this but I always read, think, and try to make a rationale decision based on science and experience.
As to your comment I made on another forum - you are correct albeit you quoted me wrong. I didn't say I don't get why people inject more frequently, I said I don't understand EOD injections with compounds that have a half life that indicate you don't need to. I still stand behind that statement.

Why reinvent the wheel? I think you should do what you want so I mean no disrespect and if you feel ED shots help - do it.
My tests with prop were simply to see how quickly they would clear my system and put me in the low T camp, unfortunately I discovered I liked Prop a lot lol. It was evident after a few blood test - 7/8 days and I am below the normal line with prop. Test E or C and I noticed no difference over years if I inject once or twice a week. No difference in how I feel, my sex drive, or muscle growth. Is it different in blood test - yes.

On another note - you can't manipulate esters. If you can you are the first to be able to do this that I know of. You can manipulate your hormones but injection frequency still doesn't change the esters in any manner.

I take such little gear it doesn't make much of a difference anyway - just 100 mg of T E and 100-150 mg of Primo per week. That's my blast lol - take out the Primo and that is my cruise. I'm just an average guy who lifts because he likes it and dabbles with small amounts of gear - I'm no expert so anyone who knows better please speak up. That being said - I am lucky enough to know two of smartest guys on two forums off the forums and one is Gondar and if I want advice I ask because some guys here have forgot more than I know about PED's.
 
Thank you for the thought process as to why you think there is a difference. I am in the @biguglynewf camp and don't worry so much about this but I always read, think, and try to make a rationale decision based on science and experience.
As to your comment I made on another forum - you are correct albeit you quoted me wrong. I didn't say I don't get why people inject more frequently, I said I don't understand EOD injections with compounds that have a half life that indicate you don't need to. I still stand behind that statement.

Why reinvent the wheel? I think you should do what you want so I mean no disrespect and if you feel ED shots help - do it.
My tests with prop were simply to see how quickly they would clear my system and put me in the low T camp, unfortunately I discovered I liked Prop a lot lol. It was evident after a few blood test - 7/8 days and I am below the normal line with prop. Test E or C and I noticed no difference over years if I inject once or twice a week. No difference in how I feel, my sex drive, or muscle growth. Is it different in blood test - yes.

On another note - you can't manipulate esters. If you can you are the first to be able to do this that I know of. You can manipulate your hormones but injection frequency still doesn't change the esters in any manner.

I take such little gear it doesn't make much of a difference anyway - just 100 mg of T E and 100-150 mg of Primo per week. That's my blast lol - take out the Primo and that is my cruise. I'm just an average guy who lifts because he likes it and dabbles with small amounts of gear - I'm no expert so anyone who knows better please speak up. That being said - I am lucky enough to know two of smartest guys on two forums off the forums and one is Gondar and if I want advice I ask because some guys here have forgot more than I know about PED's.
You can most definitely manipulate your esters.

If you inject on monday test e it peaks roughly 24 hrs later( give or take). Tuesday its peak. Wensday its still there. But slowly lowers then thursday should get you your lowest day on blood work. This is my absolute lowest day of 19nmol. On tuesday im 34ish nmol. So thats proven.

If i inject every day theres no drop in testosterone levels like the wensday to Thursday. I remain at 34nmol ish ,You remain at your peak everyday of the week. (This is manipulating the ester) in my words , so this is forceing it to remain at its optimal peak and maintaining my free testosterone every day of the week, regardless of the natural path the ester wants to make.

The only time this will change is when you change your protocal or come off. Then the ester will show its true colors and run its natural coures because you are no longer manipulating the esters half life.

This is important in my opinion because im getting maximum testosterone levels and maximizing my free testosterone every day of the week. For you on such little test you may be perfect, but for me i want the most bang for my buck.

I didnt reinvent the wheel i only am making the esters work for me, and on my schedule.


And i also will stand by this. I am fine with @gondar1 making his claim on this, i would think he would see it true as well, or be on the same page to a degree.
 
You can most definitely manipulate your esters.

If you inject on monday test e it peaks roughly 24 hrs later( give or take). Tuesday its peak. Wensday its still there. But slowly lowers then thursday should get you your lowest day on blood work. This is my absolute lowest day of 19nmol. On tuesday im 34ish nmol. So thats proven.

If i inject every day theres no drop in testosterone levels like the wensday to Thursday. I remain at 34nmol ish ,You remain at your peak everyday of the week. (This is manipulating the ester) in my words , so this is forceing it to remain at its optimal peak and maintaining my free testosterone every day of the week, regardless of the natural path the ester wants to make.

The only time this will change is when you change your protocal or come off. Then the ester will show its true colors and run its natural coures because you are no longer manipulating the esters half life.

This is important in my opinion because im getting maximum testosterone levels and maximizing my free testosterone every day of the week. For you on such little test you may be perfect, but for me i want the most bang for my buck.

I didnt reinvent the wheel i only am making the esters work for me, and on my schedule.


And i also will stand by this. I am fine with @gondar1 making his claim on this, i would think he would see it true as well, or be on the same page to a degree.
You are not manipulating the esters, you are manipulating your hormones - no? I follow what you are trying to do and we both agree - what ever works for you, you should do.
I may have been a play on words that I was interpreting but regardless its all good. Do what works for you.

As much as bloods are very important and I'm an advocate for health and monitoring, I go by how I feel as much as what the bloods indicate.

As far as manipulating hormones - A long term dose of low Primo has done wonders for me. Even 100 mg a week and my free test is off the charts while my total test is in the high normal range. I suspect most DHT compounds do this but I always stick with Primo as I don't get any sides.
Have you tried Primo @Harley00 - can't recall if you did or not?
 
You are not manipulating the esters, you are manipulating your hormones - no? I follow what you are trying to do and we both agree - what ever works for you, you should do.
I may have been a play on words that I was interpreting but regardless its all good. Do what works for you.

As much as bloods are very important and I'm an advocate for health and monitoring, I go by how I feel as much as what the bloods indicate.

As far as manipulating hormones - A long term dose of low Primo has done wonders for me. Even 100 mg a week and my free test is off the charts while my total test is in the high normal range. I suspect most DHT compounds do this but I always stick with Primo as I don't get any sides.
Have you tried Primo @Harley00 - can't recall if you did or not?
Ok , your are manipulating the esters curve. Which is manipulating your hormones.

You have to understand that if you take 100mg once a week, your bodys testosterone dosn't just turn on because Goldenrod had a bad day and is tired on Thursday... thats because the ester that belongs to the bio identical testosterone your taking has to run its course. Why? Well because your hypothalamus already registers heat from your exogenous testosterone, so it isnt gonna turn on and say hey Goldenrod needs testosterone. Now if you manipulate that ester you could always be turned on. Thats what i mean. Or lets add you can always have you hormones turned on 🤣 fair?

Ok primo , you betcha im on it now and its absolutely brilliant, its lowerd my prostate numbers already and keeps everything in check as of the moment. I barely piss now i was getting up to the 1.5 mark on my psa. Definitely noticed a difference. Im 150mg now split into everyday injections. So the primo matches my curve of the other to esters.

I do however have ran into a small snag where primo has worked to well and rasied my immune system more which was already high, but i have a solution for that as i will be starting to reset my hpa axis on Tuesday next week, and by doing so i will rasie my cortisol and lower that existing immune system issue causing me all this grief.

I cant go into great detail because it will ruin my thread ill be running on hydrocortisone. And hpa dysfunction.

Thnx for the chat.
 
An ester (in this case) is simply something that is attached to the hormone that affects the rate of deposition in the muscle. Either by length or arrangement or perhaps both.

generally size of ester means more carbons. More carbons generally mean more fat soluable. More fat soluable means longer time in the muscle to depot. It effects the rate at which it become free testosterone for the body to use.

that is very simplified explanation but probably works here.

Preference is a different issue….Tolerance is a different issue altogether. as is mg:mg concentration because of ester length. Concentration wise yes you can say there is a slight difference however in the end the differences again are pretty negligible.

Tolerance would definitely dictate choice. I’ve widely spoken about the fact that for some reason since 2010ish I believe ( I can’t honestly remember) have not found an enanthate that I do well with. Some are better than others but all result in moderate to severe pip. But again that isn’t an issue that the OP was asking about. Still to this day no one has been able to fully explain to me why this is. And I’m not smart enough to figure it out on my own. Many have hypothesized, but no fact established. Could be a combination of a few things. Regardless, not exactly relative.

cyp, real cyp….is also a bitch to hold. Much more so that enanthate. This again is do to the arrangement of the attached ester. So some may prefer enanthate simply because you can brew it to hold at an increased concentration so again a consideration in value.

However results wise on an all things being equal level. You will never know a difference between the two. Not unless you have an issue with tolerance or not comparing them equally.

I will also say this. And take it or leave it for what it is. The statement is anecdotal at best because it’s based on my subjective reactions when using test e. There are plenty of labs out there that will sell you both test e and test c…. But not all of them are selling you test c in my opinion.

why don’t you say something about that newf? Because there’s no proof or evidence and my opinion is based on my own subjective reaction. I’m not about to discredited anyone on my own subjective thoughts. That’s not fair because factually I don t know and they may be a good chance they don’t either…..Also because fundamentally, unless you react like me…. There’s really no difference between the two.
 
An ester (in this case) is simply something that is attached to the hormone that affects the rate of deposition in the muscle. Either by length or arrangement or perhaps both.

generally size of ester means more carbons. More carbons generally mean more fat soluable. More fat soluable means longer time in the muscle to depot. It effects the rate at which it become free testosterone for the body to use.

that is very simplified explanation but probably works here.

Preference is a different issue….Tolerance is a different issue altogether. as is mg:mg concentration because of ester length. Concentration wise yes you can say there is a slight difference however in the end the differences again are pretty negligible.

Tolerance would definitely dictate choice. I’ve widely spoken about the fact that for some reason since 2010ish I believe ( I can’t honestly remember) have not found an enanthate that I do well with. Some are better than others but all result in moderate to severe pip. But again that isn’t an issue that the OP was asking about. Still to this day no one has been able to fully explain to me why this is. And I’m not smart enough to figure it out on my own. Many have hypothesized, but no fact established. Could be a combination of a few things. Regardless, not exactly relative.

cyp, real cyp….is also a bitch to hold. Much more so that enanthate. This again is do to the arrangement of the attached ester. So some may prefer enanthate simply because you can brew it to hold at an increased concentration so again a consideration in value.

However results wise on an all things being equal level. You will never know a difference between the two. Not unless you have an issue with tolerance or not comparing them equally.

I will also say this. And take it or leave it for what it is. The statement is anecdotal at best because it’s based on my subjective reactions when using test e. There are plenty of labs out there that will sell you both test e and test c…. But not all of them are selling you test c in my opinion.

why don’t you say something about that newf? Because there’s no proof or evidence and my opinion is based on my own subjective reaction. I’m not about to discredited anyone on my own subjective thoughts. That’s not fair because factually I don t know and they may be a good chance they don’t either…..Also because fundamentally, unless you react like me…. There’s really no difference between the two.
Well written, as far as the test e not agreeing with you, your not alone, iv heard that from others unfortunately i sub q everything, even in high amounts and iv never had the luxury of pip, i do do shallow im in the delts with b 12 and that does appear to sting a little, i guess maybe thats pip lol.
Iv got some l cart im gonna put to the test though in a few days , so ill test out pip.

If i ever come across the reasoning for this with test e ill pm you.
 
Well written, as far as the test e not agreeing with you, your not alone, iv heard that from others unfortunately i sub q everything, even in high amounts and iv never had the luxury of pip, i do do shallow im in the delts with b 12 and that does appear to sting a little, i guess maybe thats pip lol.
Iv got some l cart im gonna put to the test though in a few days , so ill test out pip.

If i ever come across the reasoning for this with test e ill pm you.
Be sure to pass that on to all the chemists in many of the biggest and most long standing labs in Canada and the US.

Again lots of ideas from some extremely competent people, some with an alphabet of sorts behind their names….but nothing substantive.

I think it will remain mostly guesswork at best…. And is most likely linked to the manufacturing process perhaps.
 
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