I’d be 3 times my size if I actually was consistent with my training, lol.You would be 3 times your size if you did sub Q shots......Not fat injections....lolol...
Sub q steroids?
- Thread starter Palmer1991
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OK, wait, Im confused. Not hard to do I know. Lol. So, when we do HCG or GH, water based, and we squeeze up the roll we can accumulate beside the belly button, even at a 45 degree angle I assume my 30 g .5 inch is going into fat. So that is not the right way to do these? Should they be IM to make certain they are going in and being distributed properly?
I mean, I know we dont do these IV, So if not into the fat, then whats the middle area we should be doing?
You know, I just stick it in and inject. I’ve injected shallow into the muscle, into the fat, just under the skin.
I never pinch up the skin.
I’ve done over 600 injections with a 30 guage 5/16“ insulin needle.
Didn‘t matter what layer, it all worked the same way.
I injected water based, oil based, no issues, no tissue damage.
Dont overthink it. Just don’t inject in your belly near your bellybutton. That’s my only rule.
if you are using hcg or gh, inject your chest, just not near your nipples. Water based leaves no pip and no pain injecting. That’s where I did all my gh shots. Or front delts.
I have also injected pretty much every spot with the same needle size. So bis, tris, traps, lats, delts all three heads, chest (no more than 1/2 cc) glutes, ventroglutes, thighs and even 1/2 cc in my forearms once with test base (not recomended, it aches)
Everyone overthinks it, you cannot fuck up unless you inject near your nipples or belly button.
I hate injecting in my belly because my skin is thick there and the 5/16“ I don’t think goes all the way thru my skin and I get welts, but you could be fine. Pin it and find out. It welts, don’t do it again. It’s really that simple.
btw, 1/2 inch pin is not going to be sub q, it’s too long
I read back through the thread and the confusion is understandable. Hopefully someone will correct me if this is off or fill in more precise info but I will spew out a very simplified explanation. Maybe I'm gonna be too vague to even use the term explanation so I'll say "here is a good way to think about it". I'll preface by saying their are exceptions to everything coming next.
SubQ tissue is everything between the skin and muscle. Actually it is considered the deepest layer of the skin but it's is different stuff from what most people would call skin. It does usually contain fat. In some of those places the fat is thicker than others, readily obvious in certain places. The deeper you go into fat tissues the weaker the blood supply compare to the subQ tissue nearer to the other bottom layers of skin. The closer you leave a deposit of medicine to a good blood supply the better it will be absorbed.
Muscle tissue is much better and more evenly supplied with blood vessels.
TLDR: Inject with the intention of leaving the meds as near the bottom layers of skin as is practical for most efficient absorption. Don't go deep into fat deposits.
Don't squeeze up a big handful of fat and then go in at 90deg. I used the term "tenting" before, here is a pic. This is the extreme and might be needed by the ultra lean but you can also do a much less severe version by gently bunching up a little roll and going in at 45deg. Don't squeeze hard at all though.
(yep, that's a dog)And don't inject anything within a couple of inches of you navel. There is some funky shit going on under the skin there that can affect absorption.
Ok, since most gear we inject is estered, and if one was to inject in more fat and slow absorption, but did it that way all the time, would you not eventually over multiple injects end up with the same blood concentration, just it would take longer to peek because of the slower absorption? Kinda like a longer estered gear?
So in reality wouldn't really make any difference.
Unless I’m really missing something?
I agree. With oil. And that has been my experience. Yours too if I'm not mistaken.
Possibly slower with deeper injects with resulting lower peaks but as long as it all gets taken in then we're all good. Lots of factors affect these times and peaks, the volume of the injection comes to mind. Most of these differences are too small for us casual scientists to take notice of though. At some point in the curves, maybe somewhere around where the half life is, the plasma level will be the same for both. Although there is the risk of it not getting absorbed and forming an abscess, from what I understand that is more likely where their are less capillaries.
That last post I made was contributing to the thread wandering sort of off topic because it was in reply to confusion about water based stuff. I believe the depth is more important for water based stuff and that the difference between a nice shallow SC shot and a deep into fat shot wrt release and peak times is much more important for the water based stuff. Their are various strategies and intentions behind what you want from an HGH or Ipamorelin shot for example. Do you want a quick spike or prolonged action (bleeding) for example.
I'd love if someone who is deeply knowledgeable about this would come in and take a critical look at the thoughts shared here. I feel fairly confident about it in general but there's probably ample amounts of things to pick apart, hence me trying to stay generalized.
Wow. Those are some crazy good replies. I do appreciate the seriousness and thought you've both given (and many before as well) to your replies. For real.
I have been doing my HCG and GH about 2 inches from either side of my navel. Squeezing up some fat. 45 degrees. In almost the whole half in pin. So far they been going well for sure but obviously the obsorption I couldn't guarantee is optimal. So yea reading about how fat could deter that I had to ask. I watched a few nurse vids on tube and bro type vids and they all promote the above method. Even for women. Maybe I'll just try to go in a little less deep on the water based ones. Maybe like quarter inch in. Just to help get it closer to skin but still under the skin. Haha.
My oil based compound though that is always IM. It may be a shallow IM but always directly in all the way half inch or 5/8 inch specially an area like legs for me are fairly lean so pretty sure those are IM. Shoulders too. Butt too. but that area I use the 5/8. So far so good.
It can all be so confusing though to try to get this all right. To balance it. From mixing and storing and diff pins. Diff areas and angle. Some refrigerate some not. You feel like you should be a damn pharmacist or something trying to navigate through it all. Lol. All this effort we want it to work.
So we do our best. And I really appreciate everyone here trying to talk shop with me, and all of us, in the persuit of getting it right. Best we can anyway.
Cheers gondar1 and sorbate. And everyone else who is trying to clarify. Much appreciated by many here. I am sure
I have been doing my HCG and GH about 2 inches from either side of my navel. Squeezing up some fat. 45 degrees. In almost the whole half in pin. So far they been going well for sure but obviously the obsorption I couldn't guarantee is optimal. So yea reading about how fat could deter that I had to ask. I watched a few nurse vids on tube and bro type vids and they all promote the above method. Even for women. Maybe I'll just try to go in a little less deep on the water based ones. Maybe like quarter inch in. Just to help get it closer to skin but still under the skin. Haha.
My oil based compound though that is always IM. It may be a shallow IM but always directly in all the way half inch or 5/8 inch specially an area like legs for me are fairly lean so pretty sure those are IM. Shoulders too. Butt too. but that area I use the 5/8. So far so good.
It can all be so confusing though to try to get this all right. To balance it. From mixing and storing and diff pins. Diff areas and angle. Some refrigerate some not. You feel like you should be a damn pharmacist or something trying to navigate through it all. Lol. All this effort we want it to work.
So we do our best. And I really appreciate everyone here trying to talk shop with me, and all of us, in the persuit of getting it right. Best we can anyway.
Cheers gondar1 and sorbate. And everyone else who is trying to clarify. Much appreciated by many here. I am sure
Perfect explanation...We have dermis, epidermis, and sub cutaneous.
Sub cutaneous does hold fat as you mentioned, but fat areas like belly love handles and different spots on the body have more fat, if one is fat, do not inject in that area. As you stated there is low vascularity and blood supply in the fat areas, very low. Other sub q areas have better flow and less fat. Best is to pull up in a low fat area and inject as your picture does.
Everyone has theories, but facts are facts and anatomy is anatomy.
You can get infections and issues injecting into fat, YOU WON"T get full absorption or distribution in fat (FACTS). Sub q is fine, but it is not as hap hazard as some lay out here, that is for certain.
Good post @gondar1 .
I am not a doc, but deeply knowledgeable i may state that i am. Lots of chats with docs and professional med folks.
Sorbate is thinking absorption is slower in fat with esters. The fact is, if blood is not flowing in the area, it will not absorb into the blood stream, end of story, abcesses then possibly follow. They may be sterile abcess, but the body will not let it sit there static, it will encapsulate it for protection.
Been there done that.
You store fat there, as i mentioned...Not calling you a fat fuck....lol...Just most fellows carry there and bad spot to do sub q injects....Not thick skin, its called fat amigo, skin is generally similar thickness except where calloused, maybe you are doing some freaky deaky shit to get calloused thick skin belly, but welts are from poor absorption and irritation...
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I was speculating that if it absorbed slower in fat, because everyone was saying it wasnt vascular, that it would be like a longer estered preparation.
Ok I did a split second google search.
There is a ample blood flow in fat. Guess thats why I’ve had no issues after hundreds of IF injections, lol
I know I had seen first hand the structures in the fat in beef and pigs. Cut this stuff every day, just didn’t really pay attention
Interplay between adipose tissue and blood vessels in obesity and vascular dysfunction - PubMed
There is a close anatomical and functional relationship between adipose tissue and blood vessels. The crosstalk between these two organs is vital to both metabolic and vascular homeostasis. On the one hand, adipose tissue is highly vascularized, and maintenance of ample supply of blood flow is...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Just read the first 4 lines, the rest goes into how the veins can be damaged by being to obese.
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Cool. Well I’ll just leave this here.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Adipose Tissue Vascularization: Its Role in Chronic Inflammation
In obesity, the vascular complication is a result of insulin resistance, such as decreased capillary recruitment in skeletal muscle from endothelial insulin resistance. Recent progress in the study of obesity-associated inflammation suggests that vasculature ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Not sure what that has to do with anything?Cool. Well I’ll just leave this here.
Adipose Tissue Vascularization: Its Role in Chronic Inflammation
In obesity, the vascular complication is a result of insulin resistance, such as decreased capillary recruitment in skeletal muscle from endothelial insulin resistance. Recent progress in the study of obesity-associated inflammation suggests that vasculature ...
1.5 second search. Lol
Honestly I will leave this one alone. I believe what I believe as do everyone else.
I can state with certainty that there is much less blood flow and vascular it’s in fat. I have also skinned too many animals in my days. Obviously not like you @dorbste and any fat moose elk or beef or deer has a lovely yellowish hue of fat quite thick with not a bit of blood exiting it as I cut. The skin and dermis and epidermis, yes lots of blood.
The fat layer damn near zero.
Anatomy is anatomy and there is not much at all for capillaries and veins etc in that lovely fat layer I look for in my meat.
Now intermuscle fat or marbled areas are different.
Anyway I’ll let everyone decide for themselves as I am not a doc, just did way too many sub w shots and when I had issues and an ancestor removed I was explained in great detail what I fucked up.
Stay safe
Honestly I will leave this one alone. I believe what I believe as do everyone else.
I can state with certainty that there is much less blood flow and vascular it’s in fat. I have also skinned too many animals in my days. Obviously not like you @dorbste and any fat moose elk or beef or deer has a lovely yellowish hue of fat quite thick with not a bit of blood exiting it as I cut. The skin and dermis and epidermis, yes lots of blood.
The fat layer damn near zero.
Anatomy is anatomy and there is not much at all for capillaries and veins etc in that lovely fat layer I look for in my meat.
Now intermuscle fat or marbled areas are different.
Anyway I’ll let everyone decide for themselves as I am not a doc, just did way too many sub w shots and when I had issues and an ancestor removed I was explained in great detail what I fucked up.
Stay safe
Read and read once more lol
Lol last one . I think you are very much misunderstanding fat tissue and adipose or fat tissue thickness and where the blood flow is.
Old but good.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Old but good.
BLOOD VESSELS IN FAT TISSUE. RELATION TO PROBLEMS OF GAS EXCHANGE
1. The ratio of the surface of the capillary bed to the volume of tissue supplied by the vessels (S/V ratio) for both open and closed capillaries in fat-rich tissue of the rat is 51.9, in fat-poor tissue of the same sort 222.2. About one-half of the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Of course there is blood flow in fat tissue, but not near as much as muscle. How else would fat be released to blood?
BUT you have done a full circle and now the truth is missed.
Less than 25% blood flow in fat and again, cut a fat animal open it up. See how much blood comes out of that one inch and more layer of fat.
Now cut the muscle.
I am just trying to protect the folks misunderstanding or wondering about sub q and by stating just jab is blatantly irresponsible end of story.
No frustration here, quite inert actually but I will state anyone just poking and doing sub q into fat tissue is going to be sorry.
Thinking and stating injection into fat will give a nice slow release is irresponsible.
So I can’t just walk away.
Sub q is good and safe and very effective, but please people do some research.
I learned the hard way and pass it along and pay forward anything I know and will always try to help responsibly.
Off to move to Alberta. Good times.
BUT you have done a full circle and now the truth is missed.
Less than 25% blood flow in fat and again, cut a fat animal open it up. See how much blood comes out of that one inch and more layer of fat.
Now cut the muscle.
I am just trying to protect the folks misunderstanding or wondering about sub q and by stating just jab is blatantly irresponsible end of story.
No frustration here, quite inert actually but I will state anyone just poking and doing sub q into fat tissue is going to be sorry.
Thinking and stating injection into fat will give a nice slow release is irresponsible.
So I can’t just walk away.
Sub q is good and safe and very effective, but please people do some research.
I learned the hard way and pass it along and pay forward anything I know and will always try to help responsibly.
Off to move to Alberta. Good times.
you stated there was no blood flowing therefore you’d get an abcess. I said there was blood flow in fat. Fat tissue is vascular, it has blood flow to each fat cell.
Even at half of muscle tissue, we could likely spend all day arguing the effectiveness of absorption at 1/2 capacity. The article you posted stated 50% blood flow, not 25. Edit:sorry it states 1/3, the other article stated 1/2.
All I know is HUNDREDS of fat injections and not one abcess. Actually I get no bad shots this way, zero, unlike IM injections where you get a bad one that inflames once in a while (which has nothing to do with blood flow)
Anyhow, you don’t see veins in fat on wild game because you wouldn’t know what you were looking for. Just as I can bet you wouldn't be able to find veins in the back straps on a deer. I see veins in fat especially on the inside rounds of beef on each piece.
Also at my peek, I boned 100 moose, 20 elk and 400 deer each hunting season.
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Have fun moving. You hire a company?