New to TRT - Would appreciate help

R

racevstime

New member
Hey everyone,
I'm a 22 year old and I've struggled with chronic fatigue, low libido, low energy and depression. I checked my natty t levels last year when I was 150lbs at 5ft7 and my total testosterone was 447ng/dl. I tried everything over the last 4 years to feel better, from exercising to losing weight, to keto, everything. The worst feeling I have is feeling tired and fatigued to the point where I have to take naps to get through the day and its concerning at my age. At this point, this is my number 1 focus in life 9(fixing these symptoms) because its getting in the way of a lot of things. In the past, doctors have told me that I'm just reading too much into things, reading bad material online, or comparing myself to others. The most one doctor did was a blood test that showed that I was severely defficent in Vitamin D and I have been taking supplements since then which haven't really changed much.


Anyways, I started injecting and I'm on my 4th week now. I planned to do 500mg/week, 2 injections a week monday and thursday. I know the dosage is high and this was prolly a big mistake but I just wanted to get rid of the symptoms and if needed, I could reduce the dosage later. I've read so many anecdotes of people online who see life changing effects from TRT and I was really excited to have the same change. My main thing was that I wanted to feel the positive mental effects and I saw so many anecdotes of people online experiencing the increased energy, libido, mood, everything. It's my 4th week now and I haven't felt a thing. I still need to take a nap to get through the day (pathetic cuz im 22 only), I wake up tired from 7 hours of sleep, and most concerning of all, I don't feel any change in energy or anything. I'm doing Test E btw so maybe its cuz its a longer ester or something? My source is PG anabolics which has good reviews. Furthermore, I checked my levels with a blood test a couple days back and I got the results - I'm at 1400ng/dl total test so its gone up but I don't feel any different. (I've attached my blood test results below). What could be the reason? It's so frustrating cuz I really wanna fix these symptoms and feel full of energy and high mood like so many other guys report, some even in mid 20s. Do you think my SHBG could be too high? They didn't check my free testosterone so maybe its getting converted over or something? I just really wanna make this work, I hate feeling the way I do now, feeling useless and weak and I thought trt or a test cycle would fix this but so far nothing at all.


I've attached my blood test results below in pictures too. I would really appreciate your help with this because the most I came up with was taking boron or some supplement to reduce shbg and increase free test or to change up the ester. The other thing I really need is if there's someone in calgary and can please tell me about a doctor or clinic that does free test and shbg testing readily, because in my experience, its an absolute battle to get this done. Doctors look at my age and they say "you got nothing to worry about". I also wanna add in the fact that I've never smoked and I don't drink or do any recreational drugs either. I'm just trying anything to fix these low t symptoms and I really appreciate your help with this, it could be life changing for me. Thanks so much everyone, appreciate it.

Blood test results below: (shbg and free test not included)
cre.JPGest.JPGhlu.JPGneu.JPGpot.JPGshow.JPGtri.JPG
 
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Harley00 said:
500mg a week for trt is reckless. Especially when ur trying to figure things out

Start 120mg a week. Pin twice a week wait 6 weeks do bloods again.

And please put paragraphs in, this hurts my eyes i give up reading it all. We've all done it , dont worry.
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Thanks, I've changed it to paragraph format and I'll remember that for next time. I'll pin 60mg twice a week then and get my blood test but I don't understand how, if I'm not feeling better on test at 500mg/week, then how would reducing the dosage help? Do you think changing the ester would do anything? And how do you get a free test and shbg test in canada like is there an online service that does it? Thx
 
racevstime said:
Thanks, I've changed it to paragraph format and I'll remember that for next time. I'll pin 60mg twice a week then and get my blood test but I don't understand how, if I'm not feeling better on test at 500mg/week, then how would reducing the dosage help? Do you think changing the ester would do anything? And how do you get a free test and shbg test in canada like is there an online service that does it? Thx
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Private labs , sadly we lost lets get checked, so you being young you wont get in at most trt clinics. So you can try (get maple ) or Babylon app and talk to a telemedicine doc. And get a blood req.

I wouldnt be to concerned on free test or shbg just yet, but yes there definitely 100% good markers to check for lots of reasons, but if your still tired, at 1400ng/dl then test wasnt the root cause to your issues. Add the free and the shbg to your next lab work.

Now youve just added more issues cause your estrogen is likely climbing and you will feel worse. Your estrogen will need to match your test, so high test then higher e2. To balance etc.

Again. If your not feeling the effects of testosterone currently, then that most likely isnt the problem hear.

Levels of testosterone of 700 to 1000 ng/dl are what id say mkst men reach there feel goods and good libido from. In general.

Your tsh was good , but have you checked ft3 and ft4. Just would like to make sure your not hyperthyroidism, some people can experience fatigue from over active thyroid the same as underactive. Usally with hyper your tsh is lower, and youll spot the issues with the ft4 ft3. If its hypo then a high tsh can indicate.

This is some starting info.
 
Harley00 said:
Private labs , sadly we lost lets get checked, so you being young you wont get in at most trt clinics. So you can try (get maple ) or Babylon app and talk to a telemedicine doc. And get a blood req.

I wouldnt be to concerned on free test or shbg just yet, but yes there definitely 100% good markers to check for lots of reasons, but if your still tired, at 1400ng/dl then test wasnt the root cause to your issues. Add the free and the shbg to your next lab work.

Now youve just added more issues cause your estrogen is likely climbing and you will feel worse. Your estrogen will need to match your test, so high test then higher e2. To balance etc.

Again. If your not feeling the effects of testosterone currently, then that most likely isnt the problem hear.

Levels of testosterone of 700 to 1000 ng/dl are what id say mkst men reach there feel goods and good libido from. In general.

Your tsh was good , but have you checked ft3 and ft4. Just would like to make sure your not hyperthyroidism, some people can experience fatigue from over active thyroid the same as underactive. Usally with hyper your tsh is lower, and youll spot the issues with the ft4 ft3. If its hypo then a high tsh can indicate.

This is some starting info.
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Thanks for your response. I do remember LetsgetChecked... wish it was still around. I know about Maple so I'll try them out tomorrow. Hopefully they give it to me. Never heard of babylon app, not sure if it works in Alberta but I'll get in touch with them too. You know, I really hope that its the free test/shbg issue that's making me tried because I had all the low t symptoms - low libido, low motivation, low mood etc. I haven't checked FT4 or FT3, hopefully I can get that tested as well (hopefully they let me). The gear is solid because my total test has increased a lot. My prolactin is apparently a little bit high but my estrogen for such a dosage isn't. I'm just feeling stuck and frustrated, I really thought this would be the fix
 
racevstime said:
Thanks for your response. I do remember LetsgetChecked... wish it was still around. I know about Maple so I'll try them out tomorrow. Hopefully they give it to me. Never heard of babylon app, not sure if it works in Alberta but I'll get in touch with them too. You know, I really hope that its the free test/shbg issue that's making me tried because I had all the low t symptoms - low libido, low motivation, low mood etc. I haven't checked FT4 or FT3, hopefully I can get that tested as well (hopefully they let me). The gear is solid because my total test has increased a lot. My prolactin is apparently a little bit high but my estrogen for such a dosage isn't. I'm just feeling stuck and frustrated, I really thought this would be the fix
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Your prolactin isnt crazy high. Its just a tick over range. Jerking off or sex the night before the labs can do that. High prolactin caN signal pituitary tumors, but generally thats way high prolactin. Prolactin can follow e2 as well so higher e2 can give you higher prolactin.

Hormones are going to change so much it litterly takes a year or more to dial anything in . And lots of labs to do it properly.

The free t and shbg in my opinion is really just gonna help with dosing frequency. Theres others but to see how much test is bound and free will help determine a better pinning schedule , dont run out and just grab those 2 labs and think thats it. Because it isnt.
 
I skimmed what you wrote and skimmed the blood work paying attention to what you changed. As @Harley00 said you are calling a cycle TRT and it makes no sense. You want to feel normal but are taking enough testosterone to put you significantly over the normal reference range. Unless, I am confusing my numbers - you were already in range albeit low for a guy in his 20's. You are going about this wrong - start low and retest a month or two in and then adjust your dosage if needed.

Regardless, you need to find a doctor who will listen to you. Keep going back or find a doctor who will take you serious. There are too many possibilities to contemplate and no one here can properly diagnose you but we can all guess. I agree with Harley - if you are at 1400 and on week 4 and feel no different, your issue is not low T in reference to your symptoms.

Be prepared for most doctors to immediately go to depression and want to try you on a SSRI. If this is their recommendations, and it may have nothing to do with depression, I would take it as it is indicative of a doc wanting to work for a solution. Take the medication for the 2-8 weeks and report back if it doesn't work. If a regular GP can't figure this out - they should refer you to an internal medicine specialist. I recall being sick in my mid 20's and it took 6 visits before my GP (who was a great guy) to say fuck it and send me off to who he thought was the best doctor in the province in internal medicine.

Not all doctors have egos but many do. There are a few doctors on this site so no offense gents. My point in saying this is learn to talk to them and be an active patient, keep a file with your own records and notes to indicate what you did and if you saw any improvement. Be prepared for your appointments with your list of questions or concerns.

I don't have your answer and based on your write up - I wouldn't be looking for answers on a forum and would be working with a doctor who cares and wants to help you. Post your blood work - lots of guys can help but when it comes to symptoms that can mimic a long list of potential diseases / issues.

Best of luck bud.
 
500 is crazy high to start out at for "trt", or even a first cycle blast IMO. TRT is a balancing act in a way. It could take you months to balance and feel better. I would run at 100-120 for 2-3 months before getting impatient. I can do 120~ for a bit, feel great, good libido. Change it to 250, still feel good, libido is gone, dick isn't working great. Go up to 350, feel like shit but libido is back. go to 500!? It's a crapshoot at that point. Without consistent blood work to go with my changes in dosage, I can't say 100% what is going on, but there are tons of factors that can play into this. Estrogen would be a big one, along with SHBG and Free T to name a couple more.

Do as Harley says and lower your dose, sit there for 2-3 months and take some notes on how you feel. If you want to bump up from there do it slowly.

Don't expect miracles from TRT. You hear lots of people who say it's life-changing, but there are just as many who it didn't do much for. Those guys just aren't flooding the internet with neutral reviews. I do think it can help you or anyone, but it can take a long time to get dialled in.
 
Do a cycle if you want to cycle but 450 is not low T.

Your issues are likely something else. Work with your Dr.

People like myself who says it was life changing A. We’re double your age. B. Test numbers were less than 1/2 your number.

On trt Dr will aim for FT level of 500 (your already close to that)

Over 150mg per week is not sustainable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
Do a cycle if you want to cycle but 450 is not low T.

Your issues are likely something else. Work with your Dr.

People like myself who says it was life changing A. We’re double your age. B. Test numbers were less than 1/2 your number.

On trt Dr will aim for FT level of 500 (your already close to that)

Over 150mg per week is not sustainable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hey thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, the 447ng/dl was my total testosterone when I was natty and I had all the low t symptoms. It was not my free testosterone. I don't know how much my free testosterone was when I was natty. I have reduced my dosage to 150mg/week now.
 
I would recommend talking to your doctor and getting an actual prescription that is monitored by a physician. Trt doses range from 200mg every two weeks and are adjusted up to 400mg every two weeks. I’m on 300mg every two weeks. It works well for me. However, I do run one to two longer cycles a year that are 15-20 weeks in length.
 
How did you get 1400 ng/dl TT? Your blood work is showing >52 nmol/L. You are probably way above 1400 ng/dl, even 4 weeks into blasting 500 per week. You also shouldn't expect to be fully saturated until about 5 half lives, which is about 6 weeks for cypionate and a bit less for enanthate.

Most people on TRT don't reap the benefits until 6+ weeks in. Your body takes time to adjust, especially when you are taking a drug with such a long half life.

As most here pointed out, you are not on TRT. You are blasting testosterone. You may end up feeling good, and you may end up feeling like shit. I'd recommend you find a doctor who will prescribe you TRT, or if you do decide to do it on your own, do some research.
 
Good day Sir,
Some thoughts, no offense intended but a few things are a bit off
SeeMac said:
How did you get 1400 ng/dl TT? Your blood work is showing >52 nmol/L. You are probably way above 1400 ng/dl, even 4 weeks into blasting 500 per week. Yes correct, probably at least 3.5 times that You also shouldn't expect to be fully saturated until about 5 half lives, **Er, no. Even if it happens to work out pretty close sometimes half life is not a measure to be used when figuring uptake. Dosing 500 as he described would get your plasma level to 98ish% in around 3.5 weeks, the last 2% would take about another 6 weeks. which is about 6 weeks for cypionate and a bit less for enanthate. Also no, sorry. This suggests a half life of cyp to be about 8.4 days. The Terminal half life of cyp is 5 days, 4.5 for Enth. Individual differences and variables come into effect of course but
outliers at the numbers you show would be very rare indeed.
Most people on TRT don't reap the benefits until 6+ weeks in. Your body takes time to adjust, especially when you are taking a drug with such a long half life.

As most here pointed out, you are not on TRT. You are blasting testosterone. You may end up feeling good, and you may end up feeling like shit. I'd recommend you find a doctor who will prescribe you TRT, or if you do decide to do it on your own, do some research.
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Edit- ** I shouldn't have worded that the way I did, I should have said that 5 half lives doesn't prove to be true with every drug or every route of administration. The way you said it is perfectly fine in casual conversation. However it is not considered a rule for those involved in serious pharmacological examination. Variables again.
 
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gondar1 said:
Good day Sir,
Some thoughts, no offense intended but a few things are a bit off

Edit- ** I shouldn't have worded that the way I did, I should have said that 5 half lives doesn't prove to be true with every drug or every route of administration. The way you said it is perfectly fine in casual conversation. However it is not considered a rule for those involved in serious pharmacological examination. Variables again.
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Most manufacturers cite the half life of cyp as 8 days. https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/depo-testosterone/clinical-pharmacology

In general, you reach steady state after 4 to 5 half lives. To be specific, you are at 94% max serum concentration after 4 half lives, and 97% after 5. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223885/
 
SeeMac said:
Most manufacturers cite the half life of cyp as 8 days. https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/depo-testosterone/clinical-pharmacology

In general, you reach steady state after 4 to 5 half lives. To be specific, you are at 94% max serum concentration after 4 half lives, and 97% after 5. Pretty much what I said right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223885/
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Hmmm, very interesting. I didn't realize that their was such a wide variety of opinion out there, maybe I'm simply behind the times regarding cyp. Still learning daily either way. Not sure that I agree that "most" manufacturers say that though, I looked at a half dozen or so just now and that was not the case.
It's interesting that the Canadian Pfizer monograph https://www.pfizer.ca/sites/default/files/201807/Depo-Testosterone_PM_E_217239_12July2018.pdf seems to tell a different story than the American version, at least for healthy males.

Unfortunately they use different language so it muddies things (at least for me). Most of the Cdn ones contain the following text -
"In a randomized cross-over study of six healthy males aged 20-29 years of age, the
pharmacokinetics of a single injection of 200 mg testosterone cypionate was compared to that of
a single injection of 194 mg testosterone enanthate. Mean serum testosterone concentrations
increased sharply to 3 times the basal levels (approximately 1350 ng/dL) at 24 hours and
declined gradually to basal levels (approximately 500 ng/dL) by day 10"

This suggests a 5 day half life by my math.

FYI Their is another paragraph citing a study with hypogonadal men, yet another variable, that suggests an even longer return to basal levels, 14 days. The different values they use along with significant % +/- makes it more complicated but it still appears to fit the 5 day half life model.

I spoke with great confidence in those numbers because I personally have seen them prove true more than 50 times with Enanthate and have always understood C and E to be nearly interchangeable. I also have a handful of results that ring true for C but frankly never put 100% trust in them due to being UGL product, could have actually been E or misdosed for all I know.

Thank you for replying, got me thinking about this in a way I have not in a long while.
 
gondar1 said:
Hmmm, very interesting. I didn't realize that their was such a wide variety of opinion out there, maybe I'm simply behind the times regarding cyp. Still learning daily either way. Not sure that I agree that "most" manufacturers say that though, I looked at a half dozen or so just now and that was not the case.
It's interesting that the Canadian Pfizer monograph https://www.pfizer.ca/sites/default/files/201807/Depo-Testosterone_PM_E_217239_12July2018.pdf seems to tell a different story than the American version, at least for healthy males.

Unfortunately they use different language so it muddies things (at least for me). Most of the Cdn ones contain the following text -
"In a randomized cross-over study of six healthy males aged 20-29 years of age, the
pharmacokinetics of a single injection of 200 mg testosterone cypionate was compared to that of
a single injection of 194 mg testosterone enanthate. Mean serum testosterone concentrations
increased sharply to 3 times the basal levels (approximately 1350 ng/dL) at 24 hours and
declined gradually to basal levels (approximately 500 ng/dL) by day 10"

This suggests a 5 day half life by my math.

FYI Their is another paragraph citing a study with hypogonadal men, yet another variable, that suggests an even longer return to basal levels, 14 days. The different values they use along with significant % +/- makes it more complicated but it still appears to fit the 5 day half life model.

I spoke with great confidence in those numbers because I personally have seen them prove true more than 50 times with Enanthate and have always understood C and E to be nearly interchangeable. I also have a handful of results that ring true for C but frankly never put 100% trust in them due to being UGL product, could have actually been E or misdosed for all I know.

Thank you for replying, got me thinking about this in a way I have not in a long while.
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I agree it is pretty nuanced. It also is important to note that the carrier oil and the concentration effect the half life of the drug. In general, the higher the concentration, the less fat solubility and thus a quicker absorption rate. This may be why Canada quotes longer half lives, as their cyp is always dosed at 100mg/ml compared to the usual 200mg/ml found in the states. I agree that the half life is probably not 8 days though, as there are many anecdotes of guys having massive peak-trough differences on once per week injection.
 
Harley00 said:
500mg a week for trt is reckless. Especially when ur trying to figure things out

Start 120mg a week. Pin twice a week wait 6 weeks do bloods again.

And please put paragraphs in, this hurts my eyes i give up reading it all. We've all done it , dont worry.
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Wow 500mg for trt thats huge man…………does anyone know the ester weight on cypionate? Like if im doing 250mg and its dosed correct how much of that is the actual drug and gow much is ester weight?
 
bigbossbigdelts said:
Wow 500mg for trt thats huge man…………does anyone know the ester weight on cypionate? Like if im doing 250mg and its dosed correct how much of that is the actual drug and gow much is ester weight?
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I would guess cypionate is around 70mg per 100mg . Someone can correct me.

Alot of other factors go into this, thats where the total t and free t /shbg come in handy. Everybody will absorb the hormone differently, so honestly in my opinion the weight doesn't matter as much, i always prefer propionate though due to the higher weight, best bang for buck i guess for me.
 
Harley00 said:
I would guess cypionate is around 70mg per 100mg . Someone can correct me.

Alot of other factors go into this, thats where the total t and free t /shbg come in handy. Everybody will absorb the hormone differently, so honestly in my opinion the weight doesn't matter as much, i always prefer propionate though due to the higher weight, best bang for buck i guess for me.
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Thx brother. 🙏 and ya i dont mean free test cus yes everyone is diffrent i just mean drug to ester. But thx for answerimg so late😎
 
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