Multi day fasting

And from a purely fat loss perspective, (and maybe some water) I am noticeably leaner by Wednesday mornings. I can see it mostly in my face. I've carbed up plenty since then (Friday now) and the effect is still there. Of course it helps being on gear to minimize the muscle loss during the fast. Currently test 150/deca 300
 
Last edited:
And from a purely fat loss perspective, I am noticeably leaner by Wednesday mornings. I can see it mostly in my face. I've carbed up plenty since then (Friday now) and the effect is still there. Of course it helps being on gear to minimize the muscle loss during the fast. Currently test 150/deca 300
Just a heads up, steroids would counter autophagy so you’re spinning your wheels if you’re using gear and trying to get the longevity benefits from fasting’s ability to activate autophagy
 
Just a heads up, steroids would counter autophagy so you’re spinning your wheels if you’re using gear and trying to get the longevity benefits from fasting’s ability to activate autophagy
ok you have my attention with this one. Anti-catabolic = anti-autophagous? Seems to simple for such a dynamic process. Any literature you can guide me to? I guess I can do a search but if you have something already then awesome.
 
Rock, would you mind pointing to the relevant part in that article? Cheers.

If you're referring to this part...
" In principle, it can be predicted that the long-lasting administration of caloric restriction mimetics136 and stimulators of macroautophagy via mTOR blockage, like rapamycin, should have similar effects (while GH, Insulin, IGF-1 and anabolic steroids should have opposite effects "

I believe this only referring to mimicking the effect in otherwise fed subjects, "caloric restriction mimetics"
 
Last edited:
Rock, would you mind pointing to the relevant part in that article? Cheers.

If you're referring to this part...
" In principle, it can be predicted that the long-lasting administration of caloric restriction mimetics136 and stimulators of macroautophagy via mTOR blockage, like rapamycin, should have similar effects (while GH, Insulin, IGF-1 and anabolic steroids should have opposite effects "

I believe this only referring to mimicking the effect in otherwise fed subjects, "caloric restriction mimetics"

fed subjects wouldn’t be activating autophagy regardless whether with anabolic steroids or without, it would be redundant to say anabolic steroids decrease autophagy in fed subjects

Read the whole page, it explains autophagy
 
fed subjects wouldn’t be activating autophagy regardless whether with anabolic steroids or without, it would be redundant to say anabolic steroids decrease autophagy in fed subjects

Read the whole page, it explains autophagy

Right, but that's not what I'm saying. They induced autophagy in fed subjects artificially and they "speculated' the opposite with AAS and fed subjects, not in fasted subjects. I'm open to being wrong but I don't see where they show lack of autophagy with AAS in fasted subjects. I will read it over again as this is an area of great interest to me and I appreciate your input!
 
Most of what you guys are discussing is over my head, but i cant imagine going days without eating and retaining muscle mass. Everyone is different, but i notice a big difference just missing one meal a day for long periods of time.
 
Just a heads up, steroids would counter autophagy so you’re spinning your wheels if you’re using gear and trying to get the longevity benefits from fasting’s ability to activate autophagy
Basically what you are saying is that the presence of Testosterone itself (no matter what the level) will inhibit the process of autophagy. That is a huge monsterous Evil Knievel type jump to such a black or white conclusion.
 
Most of what you guys are discussing is over my head, but i cant imagine going days without eating and retaining muscle mass. Everyone is different, but i notice a big difference just missing one meal a day for long periods of time.
The use of fasting and how and when (or if) you would use it COMPLETELY depends on your goals.
Its pretty gad dang versatile in its use/s.
IF muscle building was your ultimate all out end goal at all costs in the shortest amount of time possible then fasting would not be in your vocabulary.
Any degree of variance from that particular end goal...well...maybe.
 
The use of fasting and how and when (or if) you would use it COMPLETELY depends on your goals.
Its pretty gad dang versatile in its use/s.
IF muscle building was your ultimate all out end goal at all costs in the shortest amount of time possible then fasting would not be in your vocabulary.
Any degree of variance from that particular end goal...well...maybe.
Agreed. My goals at 45 (today actually) are a balance between continued recomp and overall health.
 
Agreed. My goals at 45 (today actually) are a balance between continued recomp and overall health.

Exact same boat my man...45 as well....and Happy Bday! lol
Have had experience with both intermittent fasting and keto style methods of eating in the last 5 years or so.
I have found that I can still gain mass/strength with intermittent fasting (usually a 6-8 hour feeding window).
Have been into lifting weights for over 25 years and for a good part of that growing up there was no bigger sense of fear than the feeling of...HUNGER!!!
It was only until recently that Longevity has began its way into becoming as much of a value as strength and muscle always has been.
I just recently took like 3 months off training and pretty much blew intermittent fasting out the window with bowls of cereal and sugar filled oatmeals for breakfast while still keeping my somewhat eccentric eating habits throughout the later part of the day.
Lets just say not training, eating carb filled meals throughout the beginning of the day and being off Test can add up (although sneakily) around the waistline!
I'm heavier than I have ever been and after only being back at training for the last month or so it is obvious I have also lost muscle mass...duh.
Anyways...never thought I would be that guy who weighs the most he ever has in an untrained state...ugh. lol

Anyway, yeah...my point was that my experience of hunger was the devil.
It wasn't until I did my first 24 hour fast that I realized I wasn't going to die and that i actually felt pretty facking fantastic.
Fastforward and I am also looking into how to best incorporate Fasting while maintaining musclemass (as much as possible).

Sounds like you are educated enough to have come across the quite interesting studies that were done with how much more muscle mass was maintained with fasting with a set amount of calories being eaten at the end of the week as compared to the group who ate the same amount of calories throughout the day, throughout the week. ?

The 24 hr fast really helps reset things nutritionally.
It makes going onto a Carnivore or keto type diet SOOOO much easier.
I have actually begun to like the feeling of being somewhat hungry or in a fasted state.
Its like I'm never tired.

Because fat loss is HIGH on my values right now with only maintaining muscle mass as my goal...I am intermittent fasting (and even leaning towards OMAD "one meal a day") low carb style with a 6-8 hour window.
So far liking everything about the low carb (mostly eating only animal products...mainly beef) as it allows me to somewhat keep that edge of having an elevated sense of awareness that fasting gives me in its initial stages while still giving me the protein for the best odds of maintaining muscle.
My curiosity has been nudged enough to want to experiment with longer fasts as I have also seen some interesting psychological benefits from it as well.
It will be baby steps...after seeing I can go 24-36 hours of fasting with only beneficial results its given me confidence to potentially adventure further.
I really couldn't imagine going a full day without eating anything until just recently,
Has been an interesting eye opener.
 
Last edited:
Agreed. My goals at 45 (today actually) are a balance between continued recomp and overall health.
If you haven't come across the work of Lyons yet I have a strong inclination you will dig her work.
Oh...and shes HAAAAAWT.
 
Basically what you are saying is that the presence of Testosterone itself (no matter what the level) will inhibit the process of autophagy. That is a huge monsterous Evil Knievel type jump to such a black or white conclusion.

Well don’t steroids do the opposite of autophagy?

never said it would inhibit it completely, but for sure would decrease it
especially 150mg test and 300mg deca

here’s a study
Castration = increased autophagy
Castration + testosterone = dose dependant decreased autophagy
Testosterone + androgen blocker = increased autophagy

 
Last edited:
Well don’t steroids do the opposite of autophagy?

never said it would inhibit it completely, but for sure would decrease it
especially 150mg test and 300mg deca

here’s a study
Castration = increased autophagy
Castration + testosterone = dose dependant decreased autophagy
Testosterone + androgen blocker = increased autophagy

I wont comment on deca or any other unnatural derivative of Test.
But yes I can agree that there might be some slight inhibitory effects to optimal autophogy with increased Test via “some” relative pathway.
My understanding is that the main mechanism for autophogy is stimulated or kicked into gear from a sustained absence of sufficient caloric intake. So yes, in the sense that testosterone has a protein sparing effect when in a calorie deficient state I can see that it may have “some” inhibitory effects in regards to the overall effects of autophogy?
But would still consider the presence of Test to be a thumb in a cracked dam as far as its ability to prevent autophogy from happening overall.
Just two huge mechanisms that have more differences than similarities imo.
Would be inclined to believe that increased Test simply makes “more” work for autophogy to do rather than inhibit the mechanism itself if that makes sense?
Thanks for contributing to an interesting conversation either way. 🤘
 
I wont comment on deca or any other unnatural derivative of Test.
But yes I can agree that there might be some slight inhibitory effects to optimal autophogy with increased Test via “some” relative pathway.
My understanding is that the main mechanism for autophogy is stimulated or kicked into gear from a sustained absence of sufficient caloric intake. So yes, in the sense that testosterone has a protein sparing effect when in a calorie deficient state I can see that it may have “some” inhibitory effects in regards to the overall effects of autophogy?
But would still consider the presence of Test to be a thumb in a cracked dam as far as its ability to prevent autophogy from happening overall.
Just two huge mechanisms that have more differences than similarities imo.
Would be inclined to believe that increased Test simply makes “more” work for autophogy to do rather than inhibit the mechanism itself if that makes sense?
Thanks for contributing to an interesting conversation either way. 🤘

Nice to see you @Greatful
 
Do what ever make you feel the best. I have done a 36 hr fast and I hated it. At 24 hr I was starting to not to like it ... but up to 18 hr it was not that bad when I drank my coffee... no cream or sugar (thats allowed no calories in caffeine) and lots of water. I am a BS level eater and I eat the food that keep smy BS usually sub 5 mmol/l but above 4.5, I take my BS a lot to keep this in check. This range keeps you in the fat burning range so you are not gaining fat and your not going catabolic. What ever rings your bells is what I say.
 
Do what ever make you feel the best. I have done a 36 hr fast and I hated it. At 24 hr I was starting to not to like it ... but up to 18 hr it was not that bad when I drank my coffee... no cream or sugar (thats allowed no calories in caffeine) and lots of water. I am a BS level eater and I eat the food that keep smy BS usually sub 5 mmol/l but above 4.5, I take my BS a lot to keep this in check. This range keeps you in the fat burning range so you are not gaining fat and your not going catabolic. What ever rings your bells is what I say.
I hit 4.2 and start to feel the effect of hypoglycaemia. I hate that feeling.
 
Top