Looking for some opinions on using Raloxifene. Thanks

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resilient1

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I'm on trt, using 50mg e3d, planning to nudge that back to 40mg while I use ralox. All my meds are pharma.

I have two lumps that I'm trying to reduce. Since starting the ralox I'm noticing more puffiness. I've only been running the ralox for 4-5 days now, and have been noticing the puffiness later in the day. I missed on dose and the puffiness immediately subsided, but those lumps are not going anywhere, so my thinking is that it's hormonal fluctuation.
As for dosing. I'm taking 60mg daily in a divided dose, which I'm debating may be a waste of the dose and time. I know the half life is 24 hours, and I'm guessing most just take it as a single dose? The reason for the divided dose is to minimize fluctuation, but I'm likely overthinking it. I also have nolva, which I am going to add in for a week or two. Since I've dropped my dose I should not need to use an AI, but have aromasin on hand.

I've used ralox before, and had good results. I know it can increase serum test and E2, which is why I can take a little ai every now and again, but in reality I should not need any ai at this dose.

Any other suggestions or experience would be greatly appreciated.
 
I increased to 90, 60 at night, 30 in the am, as well as 10mg of tamoxifen, to inhibit any additional binding at the receptors. There was some improvement, but I wasn't tolerating it too well so I dropped back to 60mg at night and the lumps seemed to reappear almost immediately. I'm still experiencing tenderness to the touch, so it's appears it will be more of a marathon than a sprint. I could hammer it with 120mg, but it gives me insomnia and adds an emotional element. The emotional aspect comes and goes, but it's a libido killer for sure. I'm ok to go in the a.m., but that's it, so I'll ride it out at the lower dose in hopes the sides reduce. No cognition issues this time around, if anything it's improved my memory. So, there's that.

I'm still taking the 10mg of tamoxifen. I can see the benefit from a prophylactic perspective, but I'm also thinking I'd be just as well to drop it to minimize any additional sides. Not a fan of taking two drugs when one should do the trick. Thoughts?
 
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Ran 60mg/d for a month, and during the middle two weeks I added 10mg of nolva, but that messed w my head too much so I dropped it. I noticed some improvement, but mainly while my E2 is low. I realize that low E2 will result in lower shbg and higher dht, neither of which is going to really benefit gyno reduction.

Currently, my E2 is def low. I thought I was normal as libido was decent and sleep improved, but a very small bit of asin just crushed me. The only upside is that the puffiness in my chest immediately disappeared, and the lumps are small, hard pea-sized tissue with a lateral tail out each side. B/c my E2 is low I decided to double the ralox while keeping my trt dose low. Although, I may take one large dose tonight to help replenish some of the enzymes I've destroyed.

My question is: it seemed to be working, but as my E2 rebounded all improvements disappeared immediately. The only reason I've doubled my dose is that I was not getting results on the previous dose. However, I suspect much of that has to do with my hormonal fluctuations. Low E2 will cause an opposite swing, and perhaps that's all it was, but after 3 days I became stressed out over the reversal of the progress I had made.

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts. The last time I ran it my trt dose was stable, and perhaps that's what is going to have to be achieved before the drug will truly be effective, but I know that AI's are also prescribed along with ralox and tamox to treat breast cancer tumours, so one would think that the current situation would be somewhat beneficial?

My only real path forward as I see it is to stick to a low/moderate trt dose, until I feel the low E2 symptoms subside, then reduce to my normal trt dose.

Thoughts?
 
OntarioMuscle101 said:
I took 120mg for 1 week then 60mg for the rest of the cycle. End of week 2 puffiness went away.
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I've been on it for a least a month now and while it helped at first it doesn't seem to be doing much of anything now. I'm only taking 47mg of test e3d, so it can't be my E2. I don't get it. Plus, my anxiety has been very high, which I attribute to leveling, as I dropped my dose and changed injection frequency. Some of that might have something to do with my trt protocol, but I can feel the anxiety build about 8 hours after I take the pill. I am considering splitting the dose (30am, 30pm), but I just don't get it.
Did you experience any sides? If I'm leveling due to the trt change that could account for some of it, but not the majority.
 
OntarioMuscle101 said:
The only way to know forsure is to do bloodwork. Raloxifene did cause me to have a bit of anxiety at first. 100%.
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I had been sweating heavily at night, bp was through the roof, headaches, and sluggish. It's hard to believe that my E2 was that high when taking such a low dose, but after a little aromasin I felt a shit ton better.
Got bloods results today. E2 was 80, which is not high, but given that my FT was 598, and TT was 29 at bottom of trough it could probably be a bit higher. The ralox is killing my libido, and the anxiety is persistent. Dropped back to 60. The bit of gyno on the left side is slowly decreasing, but it seems this is now a war of attrition. By keeping my trt dose low it should disappear in another few weeks. Not a fan of serms at all. Next time there's a slight hint of something I'll be sure to pounce on it right away. An ounce of prevention...
 
Didn't read every post, but are you taking an AI as well? I know you're E2 isn't high, but neither was mine and I still dropped it while on Raloxifene. I definitely noticed a difference when combining.

I took

60 Ralox for about 6 weeks
40 Nolvadex for about 4 weeks
~3 Aromasin for about 6 weeks


Decent size lumps down to absolutely nothing. I was lucky I didn't really feel any sides, but even if I did I would have kept going to get rid of the lumps. It took a few weeks to start to notice them go down. I feel like that was almost a year this summer and nothing has come back.
 
aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
Didn't read every post, but are you taking an AI as well? I know you're E2 isn't high, but neither was mine and I still dropped it while on Raloxifene. I definitely noticed a difference when combining.

I took

60 Ralox for about 6 weeks
40 Nolvadex for about 4 weeks
~3 Aromasin for about 6 weeks


Decent size lumps down to absolutely nothing. I was lucky I didn't really feel any sides, but even if I did I would have kept going to get rid of the lumps. It took a few weeks to start to notice them go down. I feel like that was almost a year this summer and nothing has come back.
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I have plenty of tamoxifen, but I don't much care for it. I will continue the 60mg for another month, then reassess. I've been taking the ralox for nearly 6 wks. I have to be careful with aromasin. On low dose test I'm very sensitive to small doses. I agree that I notice everything is tighter and smaller when I keep my E2 down. But, I did ralox before and my E2 wasn't as closely managed and it worked just fine. Unfortunately, for some reason I can't tolerate higher doses this time around, which sucks as 90mg broken into 60mg and 30mg divided dosing works far better. I have been having far too much anxiety, and it doesn't seem to abate. All that said, it is getting better, but it's going slowly.

I will take aromasin if needed, but I should be good now for about 2-3 weeks.
 
aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
Didn't read every post, but are you taking an AI as well? I know you're E2 isn't high, but neither was mine and I still dropped it while on Raloxifene. I definitely noticed a difference when combining.

I took

60 Ralox for about 6 weeks
40 Nolvadex for about 4 weeks
~3 Aromasin for about 6 weeks


Decent size lumps down to absolutely nothing. I was lucky I didn't really feel any sides, but even if I did I would have kept going to get rid of the lumps. It took a few weeks to start to notice them go down. I feel like that was almost a year this summer and nothing has come back.
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Did you notice any mood sides when decreasing raloxifene? I dropped from 90 a couple days ago and as of last night I have been increasingly irritable. Anxiety is not as acute, so I will continue with 60mg and I may add a prophylactic dose of 5mg of tamoxifen. How was your libido? Mine completely tanked on the ralox. I'm hoping it will return with the lowered dose, but if not I'll cut it further. What gyno remains is slight, but perhaps by running 30mg over several months I can get rid of it. Frustrating shit.
 
to be honest, I didn't feel any major sides, just a bit off... libido wasn't great but I was also on Test at the time so I may not have attributed it to the SERMs. I would just stick with it, then when it's gone stay on a daily microdose of AI for a bit so it doesn't come back immediately. I've had gyno twice now, the first time I stopped taking shit when it felt like it was gone, but obviously, it wasn't. After hammering it the second time (about 6-8 months later) I never really came off AIs. By the end of this month, I plan to take a bit of a break and lower my T to 150ish and try to come off the Aromasin. I was lucky that it never became a big problem, Only had bumps for a month or two total over the 2 time periods, but was honestly ready to go and just get it removed.
 
aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
to be honest, I didn't feel any major sides, just a bit off... libido wasn't great but I was also on Test at the time so I may not have attributed it to the SERMs. I would just stick with it, then when it's gone stay on a daily microdose of AI for a bit so it doesn't come back immediately. I've had gyno twice now, the first time I stopped taking shit when it felt like it was gone, but obviously, it wasn't. After hammering it the second time (about 6-8 months later) I never really came off AIs. By the end of this month, I plan to take a bit of a break and lower my T to 150ish and try to come off the Aromasin. I was lucky that it never became a big problem, Only had bumps for a month or two total over the 2 time periods, but was honestly ready to go and just get it removed.
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I cut it down to 30mg at night and added 10mg of tamoxifen, and the lumps returned. I'm back at 60mg + 10mg tamox, and slowly adjusting. The insomnia is messing with me, but my E2 may be low, but I can't say one way or the other. The lacking libido is a real head fuck. Now, that could be b/c I went low, but according to my last bloods my E2 was 80, so good for low dose test. I know it's the ralox b/c as soon as I cut it back my libido returned. I'm trying to date, and this is not going to make my life easier, and I have no desire to be out of commission for another 3+ months. I'll give it a week or so to see if I can adjust, but I'm close to the point of surgery. It's been 6 weeks and only moderate progress, and the moment I scaled it back it flared up. Now, I took a small bit of asin on Sat, and I believe that made it worse as my E2 was already on the cusp, so that extra dht and free test seemed to wreak havoc on what was there. I def went low, but feeling better now. I have no desire to blast or take any dose of test that requires an AI, so I'm just biding my time.
I'll run bloods again in a week, but I'm at a loss. I'd like to run 120 for a few weeks, but I don't think I can tolerate the sides.

Last time I used it I had similar development, but it was suppressed sufficiently after 2 months that I had no concerns. I've read of many guys who run ralox for months only to stop and have everything flare back up. If it would stay as is when I stopped I could care less. Anyhow, a total mindfuck.
 
resilient1 said:
I cut it down to 30mg at night and added 10mg of tamoxifen, and the lumps returned. I'm back at 60mg + 10mg tamox, and slowly adjusting. The insomnia is messing with me, but my E2 may be low, but I can't say one way or the other. The lacking libido is a real head fuck. Now, that could be b/c I went low, but according to my last bloods my E2 was 80, so good for low dose test. I know it's the ralox b/c as soon as I cut it back my libido returned. I'm trying to date, and this is not going to make my life easier, and I have no desire to be out of commission for another 3+ months. I'll give it a week or so to see if I can adjust, but I'm close to the point of surgery. It's been 6 weeks and only moderate progress, and the moment I scaled it back it flared up. Now, I took a small bit of asin on Sat, and I believe that made it worse as my E2 was already on the cusp, so that extra dht and free test seemed to wreak havoc on what was there. I def went low, but feeling better now. I have no desire to blast or take any dose of test that requires an AI, so I'm just biding my time.
I'll run bloods again in a week, but I'm at a loss. I'd like to run 120 for a few weeks, but I don't think I can tolerate the sides.

Last time I used it I had similar development, but it was suppressed sufficiently after 2 months that I had no concerns. I've read of many guys who run ralox for months only to stop and have everything flare back up. If it would stay as is when I stopped I could care less. Anyhow, a total mindfuck.
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awe man... sorry dude.. I have no advice, some people just have it rough, you apparently are on of em. I take drugs like a champ always have. doesn't matter what it is I respond as I'm supposed to. good luck and honestly keep posting as I'm ver curious.
 
aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
awe man... sorry dude.. I have no advice, some people just have it rough, you apparently are on of em. I take drugs like a champ always have. doesn't matter what it is I respond as I'm supposed to. good luck and honestly keep posting as I'm ver curious.
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I tolerate most things well, but I've never cared for serms. That said, I am still re-balancing, and figure I have about 2 weeks before I start to feel like myself, but it's the insomnia that's messing with me the most. My mood is ok, however, not sleeping fucks with your emotions as well. Given that I was low it's going to be a bit before I level. Ordinarily, I would revert to once/wk injections to get things rebalanced post-haste, but that's what got me into this mess, so now I'm going for the 4-6 week slow rebalance, which is better in the long run I think? At least my system will adapt to regulate its own E2.
 
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aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
awe man... sorry dude.. I have no advice, some people just have it rough, you apparently are on of em. I take drugs like a champ always have. doesn't matter what it is I respond as I'm supposed to. good luck and honestly keep posting as I'm ver curious.
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Just a short update. Since resuming the 60mg dose + 10mg of tamox I've noticed things tighten up some. The solid lump is more dense, that is, the surrounding puffiness has subsided, plus I bumped up my dose by 15mg of ralox & 5mg of tamox last night. Will hold at that for a few days to adjust, and if all goes well increase the tamox to 20mg, then climb from 30 to 40mg as quickly as I can manage. I have an excess of tamoxifen.
Thankfully, I have a good supply of cbd oil b/c the anxiety later in the day is a real issue. Unfortunately, I don't have enough ralox to boost it further until I refill, which isn't until the end of the month. I'm hoping that by that time what is there will be nearly gone. I did notice the effectiveness at 60mg was improved simply by splitting the timing of the dose, but I found the side effects all the worse. I never had anxiety with this drug last time, but I did have bad brain fog, however, this time it's improved my cognition so the trade off is worth it. It's weird to respond differently on two separate occasions. Maintaining a low dose for trt, 45mg e3d, may go to 30mg eod for stability.
 
Do trt doctors prescribe serms and a.i's?
Sounds like a lot of shit I'm going through but no lumps or nipple issues yet. Getting super anxiety like clockwork everyday at the same time, I'm exhausted constantly, sluggish, upset stomach etc.. maybe my levels are off balance. I'm taking 140mg test c weekly but think maybe I'll divide it into two weekly shots and try that. I dont get blood work for another 3 months thatd be a shitty wait for sure
 
Jerbear said:
Do trt doctors prescribe serms and a.i's?
Sounds like a lot of shit I'm going through but no lumps or nipple issues yet. Getting super anxiety like clockwork everyday at the same time, I'm exhausted constantly, sluggish, upset stomach etc.. maybe my levels are off balance. I'm taking 140mg test c weekly but think maybe I'll divide it into two weekly shots and try that. I dont get blood work for another 3 months thatd be a shitty wait for sure
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My endo prescribes everything, AIs, test, and SERMS. If you aren't on a serm then the anxiety you are dealing with is likely high E2. 140mg in a single shot? Try dropping your dose as well as split it into two, a shot e3.5d.

How long have you been on for? That's a high starting dose when you don't know how your body responds to a certain level of test. Most guys I know fare better on more frequent shots. I inject 45mg test E e3d. If it wasn't for the serms I'd be feeling fine. 45mg e3d works out to 105mg/wk, but the more frequent your injections the less difference there is between the peak and trough, which translates into a more consistently higher serum level. For example, when I shot twice per week at 125mg the difference between my peak and trough would be more than a 50% drop on the day of my injection, whereas when I went to eod at 30mg my trough for TT and FT were still above the high normal levels. That said, my levels were noticeably lower on 52mg e3.5d, but I felt good. My libido was very good. Another refrain you will come across here is that more is generally not better. Better CBC values, better libido, mood, and if you can avoid using an AI, then you are further ahead. I won't begin to mention the list of issues I've had with trying to manage E2 on lower dose test. When I was on 140-150/wk I could use an AI without much problem, but I didn't feel good. Well, I did, but it wasn't good for me.

When I was younger I used to prefer once/wk, but I'm nearing 50 and I don't want that volatility, nor do I want to mess around with AIs. So, I will stick with e3d or e3.5d. I honestly feel if you simply skipped a week, then started at e3.5d on a lower dose you would level out quickly and feel much better. Don't let ego prevent you from optimizing your trt. You can still be strong and look great on a lower dose. I'd rather be leaner and strong than bloated and dealing with fluctuating and volatile hormones.

Hope that helps.
 
resilient1 said:
My endo prescribes everything, AIs, test, and SERMS. If you aren't on a serm then the anxiety you are dealing with is likely high E2. 140mg in a single shot? Try dropping your dose as well as split it into two, a shot e3.5d.

How long have you been on for? That's a high starting dose when you don't know how your body responds to a certain level of test. Most guys I know fare better on more frequent shots. I inject 45mg test E e3d. If it wasn't for the serms I'd be feeling fine. 45mg e3d works out to 105mg/wk, but the more frequent your injections the less difference there is between the peak and trough, which translates into a more consistently higher serum level. For example, when I shot twice per week at 125mg the difference between my peak and trough would be more than a 50% drop on the day of my injection, whereas when I went to eod at 30mg my trough for TT and FT were still above the high normal levels. That said, my levels were noticeably lower on 52mg e3.5d, but I felt good. My libido was very good. Another refrain you will come across here is that more is generally not better. Better CBC values, better libido, mood, and if you can avoid using an AI, then you are further ahead. I won't begin to mention the list of issues I've had with trying to manage E2 on lower dose test. When I was on 140-150/wk I could use an AI without much problem, but I didn't feel good. Well, I did, but it wasn't good for me.

When I was younger I used to prefer once/wk, but I'm nearing 50 and I don't want that volatility, nor do I want to mess around with AIs. So, I will stick with e3d or e3.5d. I honestly feel if you simply skipped a week, then started at e3.5d on a lower dose you would level out quickly and feel much better. Don't let ego prevent you from optimizing your trt. You can still be strong and look great on a lower dose. I'd rather be leaner and strong than bloated and dealing with fluctuating and volatile hormones.

Hope that helps.
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Thanks that helps a lot. I've been on for maybe 6 months but I was cycling testosterone before too
 
aGuyFromWinnipeg said:
awe man... sorry dude.. I have no advice, some people just have it rough, you apparently are on of em. I take drugs like a champ always have. doesn't matter what it is I respond as I'm supposed to. good luck and honestly keep posting as I'm ver curious.
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Well, that was a failed and terribly awful experience. Barely sleeping for weeks, anxiety through the roof, no focus, energy, or motivation. The lump on the right, which was the worst of the two is all but gone, but the left came back and is the size of a grape. The left is about the combined size of both previously. Irony. At the end I had to drop it and the left side returned, but as it did my emotions were a mess, which I thought was high e2. That lead to a miscalculation and I ended up crushing my E2 down to single digits. I spent weeks recovering, but when I tried taking a small amount of asin about 3 weeks later b/c my E2 was legitimately high (blood test), that small amount crushed it again. I suppose there was still far too little aromatase enzymes, so much of what was there was killed off. I'm now 4 weeks since that last dose of asin, still feel like crap, def have high e2, b/c I'm not sleeping, eating, or motivated to work out, but I will not take an ai again. I'd much prefer to pay for surgery, not that I can afford it, so live with the gyno. I've been trying 80mg e4.5-5 days, but it's too much of a spike, which has aggravated the gyno a bit, but it doesn't seem to be worsening, and at this point I can live with a little puffiness.

I'm going to try running ralox again, but not for months, maybe not until next year. What gyno is there has been there for weeks, so ralox now or a year will make no difference, plus, my system can't handle it. I tried taking 5mg of nolva for a few days to stem some of the gyno and while it did it wasn't worth it. So, later on down the road, but no more than 15-30mg. If I can build up tolerance to 30, then 45, then maybe 60. I also developed tinnitus following cessation of ralox, and two months later I still have it. I suspect it may be due to the unstable/variable hormone levels/not being level, so I'm going to try eod or e3.5d injections. No libido at all, very little appetite, and anxiety comes and goes. Better than the ralox situation, but not a whole lot. Worst 4 months I've had in memory, and it's still ongoing. Even now I barely sleep. My endo has no advice aside from it will sort itself out in time, how long, he has no idea.

So, that's what's been going on there. I don't get it, I ran ralox at 120mg/d for 3 weeks a couple years ago no issue, this time I couldn't tolerate 60. I couldn't even break the 60 as two doses of 30 as that was far more intense. I am certain my e2 is high right now but I will not use an AI. I am left waiting for my e2 to drop on its own. It's been 4 days since my last shot, so I will push it out as long as possible. Ideally, I'd like to avoid it altogether for a month or so, only use ralox by itself, and then reintroduce test after I had been off the ralox for a week or two. But, that's not possible.
 
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