If R.I.C.E doesn't work, then how do we treat soft tissue injuries?

Evil Spock

Evil Spock

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if you havent heard, the RICE protocol has been refuted by the creator, Dr. Dave Mirkin. there also have been conclusive studies that icing doesnt speed up soft tissue injury healing and the evidence actually supports that it may hinder.

where does it leave us now? i bet 98%of doctors and therapists would still say RICE it. everyone is trying to capitalize on the new acronym to replace RICE but the consensus is movement or some kind of active recovery, not rest at all

this begins as a really insightful discussion on soft tissue injuries and how they should be treated but kind of ends in a sales pitch for their electrotherapy machine. i dislocated a finger the other week. im using my fathers dr hos tens device as an experiment, with some active recovery exercises i found on youtube.

 
My thought was ice after the acute injury to slow swelling, then heat to help it heal by improving blood flow.
If it’s nerve related, or the nerve has been irritated then ice for pain relief.
 
never like icing, I felt like the pain would get worse afterwards
Pain is always worse once you wake up, after you get moving the pain subsides usually, at least that’s my experience with injuries
 
The body had a natural inflammatory response - it is trying to heal itself and some inflammation is good. The issue is too much can cause too much pain and immobilize the area but that is what your body is trying to do. Before we had physio and NSAIDS, the body would force us to rest an area because of inflammation and pain.
Research indicates the sooner you can start moving most injuries the better - obviously not a full tear or surgery but a pull, strain or even a small partial tear.
I don't use ice or NSAIDS as I don't find they do F all except I will ice the painful area after the workout/stretch/strengthening is complete. Rest for a few days and stretching and keep moving and using the area works best for me. I have 3,5, and 10 lb dumbbells all the way to 50 at home in increments of 5lbs so I can slowly increase the stress on a soft muscle injury. If I have a bicep strain, I will do my workouts with low weights and high reps after a thorough warm up with mobility exercises. Slowly I build back up to working out to failure.

Nandrolone & oxandrolone in small doses seem to help soft tissue injuries recover quicker, script HGH does but don't expect anything magic in a few days - HGH is a 3-6 month commitment minimum, and last peptides. I use BPC157 almost daily and am a big believer in its ability to heal joint, tendon, ligament, organ issues. I don't find it does a hell of a lot for muscle strains but it does help. As for the former I mentioned it works fast.
TB500 - maybe it works, maybe it doesn't and I have tried all the protocols but I didn't find it did much for me. The science behind says it should but I don't find a big difference plus I won't take it for long periods. I will take BPC and HGH for long periods.

Everyone is different but anyone who lifts, is into martial arts, and sports will get hurt and if you sit around and do nothing for weeks and then jump back on the horse - that doesn't work or at least not for me.
 
I am a fan of ice to reduce swelling. I think it really depends on what the injury is. Bursitis from impact ice works...tendon or joint sprain not so much.

For some injuries rest is only way to heal...for others going light, plus mobility work is the key.

Summary: no one size fits all


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I am also in support of icing for a major injury that is starting to swell quickly. This does slow down the swelling and it sure feels a lot better. After having done that I alternate icing and heating cause I find both help the pain and the healing. This might be bro science however most of this stuff is bro science if we are debating it now and so are the medical experts. The majority of these ideas are theory not fact, a number of theories have changed drastically with new discoveries (physics and theories on the Universe is constantly evolving). Getting the muscle activated as soon as possible is important to getting the functionality back and help in the healing process. So that is my subjective theory and I am sticking to it ... lol
 
@Goldenrod
thats interesting, i find the same with what you said. do you mean you use bpc daily because you are injured or for other reasons?
 
another thing i got from that kelly starret guy is decogesting the injury. he calls it voodoo floss. its a long thin band of rubber that you wrap an injury pressing the congested lymph and tissue waste back toward the body. it really seems to help
im not sure my electrotherapy is helping the injury heal but it sure unstiffens it.
 
zenmonky said:
@Goldenrod
thats interesting, i find the same with what you said. do you mean you use bpc daily because you are injured or for other reasons?
Click to expand...
Morning,
I use BPC 500 mcg a day everyday and there is always something that hurts but it healed my fatty liver after 5 plus years, my GGT liver enzyme was raised for 5 plus years and I was not touching gear, now I take what would be considered by most people's standards but my liver enzymes are all normal.
It is being tested for injuries, organ rejection, liver protection, and it has helped me immensely in two of those areas. I inject 500 each morning. If I had an injury I would be taking 1000 mcg per day in the injured area.
 
Annika said:
That guy looks enormous sitting by the other man!
Click to expand...
Have you ever seen a picture of a guy holding a fish and his arms are outstretched? Same effect. Totally not related to the thread, but your comment made me smile as that popped into my head.
 
Goldenrod said:
The body had a natural inflammatory response - it is trying to heal itself and some inflammation is good. The issue is too much can cause too much pain and immobilize the area but that is what your body is trying to do. Before we had physio and NSAIDS, the body would force us to rest an area because of inflammation and pain.
Research indicates the sooner you can start moving most injuries the better - obviously not a full tear or surgery but a pull, strain or even a small partial tear.
I don't use ice or NSAIDS as I don't find they do F all except I will ice the painful area after the workout/stretch/strengthening is complete. Rest for a few days and stretching and keep moving and using the area works best for me. I have 3,5, and 10 lb dumbbells all the way to 50 at home in increments of 5lbs so I can slowly increase the stress on a soft muscle injury. If I have a bicep strain, I will do my workouts with low weights and high reps after a thorough warm up with mobility exercises. Slowly I build back up to working out to failure.

Nandrolone & oxandrolone in small doses seem to help soft tissue injuries recover quicker, script HGH does but don't expect anything magic in a few days - HGH is a 3-6 month commitment minimum, and last peptides. I use BPC157 almost daily and am a big believer in its ability to heal joint, tendon, ligament, organ issues. I don't find it does a hell of a lot for muscle strains but it does help. As for the former I mentioned it works fast.
TB500 - maybe it works, maybe it doesn't and I have tried all the protocols but I didn't find it did much for me. The science behind says it should but I don't find a big difference plus I won't take it for long periods. I will take BPC and HGH for long periods.

Everyone is different but anyone who lifts, is into martial arts, and sports will get hurt and if you sit around and do nothing for weeks and then jump back on the horse - that doesn't work or at least not for me.
Click to expand...

If I find myself with the resources I will have to give the HGH and BPC-157 another go. I only did one kit and ran bpc for the same amount of time, not long enough, but I was hoping for some slight improvement. My AC joint is messed up (fluid and inflammation), a partially torn coracoclavicular ligament, a partial tear of the subscapularis tendon, likely contributing/cause of the osteoarthritis and tendonitis.

My gp told me I have two options as it doesn't meet the threshold for surgery, blow it out, or accommodate.
 
resilient1 said:
If I find myself with the resources I will have to give the HGH and BPC-157 another go. I only did one kit and ran bpc for the same amount of time, not long enough, but I was hoping for some slight improvement. My AC joint is messed up (fluid and inflammation), a partially torn coracoclavicular ligament, a partial tear of the subscapularis tendon, likely contributing/cause of the osteoarthritis and tendonitis.

My gp told me I have two options as it doesn't meet the threshold for surgery, blow it out, or accommodate.
Click to expand...
When my A/C joint was partially separated I injected the BPC157 1000 mg right into the joint for 2 weeks, as it progressively got better I went down to 500 until it was 100%. Unfortunately, HGH and BPC157 aren't quick fixes but they help. The exception to that statement, IMO, is BPC for tendon issues like Achilles Tendon strains - I lived in pain for over a year and within a month it was gone and never came back. Funny how peps work great for some issues and take longer and aren't as good for others.
Best of luck healing. Sorry about all the issues your having.
 
Goldenrod said:
When my A/C joint was partially separated I injected the BPC157 1000 mg right into the joint for 2 weeks, as it progressively got better I went down to 500 until it was 100%. Unfortunately, HGH and BPC157 aren't quick fixes but they help. The exception to that statement, IMO, is BPC for tendon issues like Achilles Tendon strains - I lived in pain for over a year and within a month it was gone and never came back. Funny how peps work great for some issues and take longer and aren't as good for others.
Best of luck healing. Sorry about all the issues your having.
Click to expand...
I was using 500mg, in divided doses, and also shot it right into the immediate area. With the GH I shot it into and around the ligament. I had great success doing this with another ligament tear, but it didn't seem to help the AC. In the future I would target an entire kit into that area. Perhaps the BPC I had wasn't any good. I'll give it another try again the future.

Thanks, but it's manageable. I have nerve issues in my low back that keep me limited in my lifts, so the shoulder issue is a distant second. If nothing else it's a reminder to take it easy and be mindful of functional ability over ego.

Were you using BPC and GH, or were you only using BPC at that time?
 
resilient1 said:
I was using 500mg, in divided doses, and also shot it right into the immediate area. With the GH I shot it into and around the ligament. I had great success doing this with another ligament tear, but it didn't seem to help the AC. In the future I would target an entire kit into that area. Perhaps the BPC I had wasn't any good. I'll give it another try again the future.

Thanks, but it's manageable. I have nerve issues in my low back that keep me limited in my lifts, so the shoulder issue is a distant second. If nothing else it's a reminder to take it easy and be mindful of functional ability over ego.

Were you using BPC and GH, or were you only using BPC at that time?
Click to expand...
I was using both - script HGH used in the abdomen in low doses (1-2 IU a day) as its systemic, BPC shot directly into the injury site as close as possible. If you read 'nagging injuries' - do a search and you will see what I tried, what worked and what didn't. I used TB500 and low dose nandrolone as well for short periods.
Basically, I tried a lot of different protocols and know whats work best for me now with minor injuries.
 
Goldenrod said:
I was using both - script HGH used in the abdomen in low doses (1-2 IU a day) as its systemic, BPC shot directly into the injury site as close as possible. If you read 'nagging injuries' - do a search and you will see what I tried, what worked and what didn't. I used TB500 and low dose nandrolone as well for short periods.
Basically, I tried a lot of different protocols and know whats work best for me now with minor injuries.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
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