How to adjust your AI

gondar1

gondar1

I'm kind of a big deal in Japan
Trusted Member
Many assumptions made here.
Works for Adex,and Asin, I assume it works for other AI.
Formula assumes that the only change will be AI protocol and all other factors will remain constant.
I prefer to keep E2 at between 20-30 pg/ml, tons of science and personal as well as anecdotal results to support that, do some reading and make up your own mind.
Great thread here with various opinions and links - https://canadianbrawn.com/threads/some-trt-experiments-and-learnings.650/
Get Bloods. **Get the Sensitive Assay Test if at all possible, far more accurate** If you are happy with E level then carry on as you have, if not apply the formula and retest.
If your BW is showing different units of measure you must convert them all to the exact ones used in the formula, here is one if it does notmatch use google to find another - http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconvert/Estradiol.php
I recommend BW been done at the trough of a 2 times per week injection schedule.

If you are not a math guy (I'm not) just take your time and carefully fill in the blanks. Often the answer you get will result in a tricky number that is not easy to mange perfectly in real life so some decisions need to be made. For example if you decide you need to take 2.6g/week (or 0.37/day) and that is hard to dose consider running with 0.75/EOD as the total is nearly the same per week. Or change to a different dosing sched like m/w/f if that gets you to where you need to be with simpler (physically) dosing. Run the numbers forwards and back everytime you make a change.

I will edit this post to add more tidbits as they come to mind. I'd suggest re-reading this OP every once in a while if this becomes a long thread as I will not be noting the edits. At least read it before you embark on the math journey for yourself.

Methodology and examples below....


From your BW with E2=Y as the result and E2=22 the goal, new dose would be old_dose x Y/22

“with E2= (e) as the result and E2=22 (g) the goal, new dose/week (NDW) would be old_dose (ODW) x e/22 “

Tested E2 in pg/ml = e

Goal E2 = g

Original Arimidex dose/week = ODW

Equation - ODW X e/g = NDW

Example;

Jonny Rockhard is running Xmg of TE and 250 HCG 3x/week with 1.29mg Arimidex/week (0.37 EOD) and his BW comes back at 30 his goal is 22.

ODW X e/g = NDW

1.29 x 30/22 = 1.75

This says that if everything else stays the same and JR adjusts his weekly dosage of Arimidex to 1.75mg/week(0.5/EOD) his expected future E2 level would be 22pg/ml
 
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Bagua said:
Who is Jonny Rockhard ?
Man, Doc you are outdoing yourself.
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Mr and Mrs Rockhard's son obviously. :giggle:
And I didn't invent that math, I was taught that at work a long time ago, I wish I could remember who made me aware of it as it applies to AI though because I would give credit.
 
gondar1 said:
Mr and Mrs Rockhard's son obviously. :giggle:
And I didn't invent that math, I was taught that at work a long time ago, I wish I could remember who made me aware of it as it applies to AI though because I would give credit.
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I should have figured that one out on my own. ;)
Math at work, eh?
 
Ok, that math blew over my head so fast, I didn't even see it coming.
Is there a math for dummies version, you gotta remember I cut meat for a living, lol
 
Ritch said:
Einstein would be proud!

I will just sit here and pretend I got all that, lol....
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Sorbate said:
Ok, that math blew over my head so fast, I didn't even see it coming.
Is there a math for dummies version, you gotta remember I cut meat for a living, lol
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I'm a math dummy myself.

It all boils down to the equation -
Equation - ODW X e/g = NDW

You already know your ODW (old dose per week in mg) and e (bloodwork tested Estro level in pg/ml).
You must decide on your goal Estro level and then work the math to figure out what the NDW (new dose per week in mg) should be to achieve that level.

We are trying to solve for NDW.
Grab a scrap of paper and take your time, go to the OP and carefully sub in the numerical values for ODW times (e divided by g)

I hope someone will post up a real life example that they have worked out
 
gondar1 said:
I'm a math dummy myself.

It all boils down to the equation -
Equation - ODW X e/g = NDW

You already know your ODW (old dose per week in mg) and e (bloodwork tested Estro level in pg/ml).
You must decide on your goal Estro level and then work the math to figure out what the NDW (new dose per week in mg) should be to achieve that level.

We are trying to solve for NDW.
Grab a scrap of paper and take your time, go to the OP and carefully sub in the numerical values for ODW times (e divided by g)

I hope someone will post up a real life example that they have worked out
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Cool thanks. I really am horrible with math. I have forced myself to learn.

I’ll use it after I come back from holidays, when I try to balance myself on a true hrt dose, with ai.
 
Sorbate said:
Cool thanks. I really am horrible with math. I have forced myself to learn.

I’ll use it after I come back from holidays, when I try to balance myself on a true hrt dose, with ai.
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Why would you be utilizing an AI on a true HRT dose Sorb?

Is it a case of people still requiring an AI even when T is in "natural" range?
 
ABMonkey said:
Why would you be utilizing an AI on a true HRT dose Sorb?

Is it a case of people still requiring an AI even when T is in "natural" range?
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First off I’m almost 50 so likely my body is converting more test into estrogen naturally.

Secondly it is my belief that when we make our test levels completely level (not fluctuating up and down like natural levels) more test gets converted into estrogen, because it’s always available to convert.
There is likely a cascade of things that need to happen for test to convert and it likely takes a certain amount of time, so natural high spikes of test may not allow the amount of time to convet a certain amount to estrogen.

I cannot explain it. I can understand the theory behind why this happens, but I cannot put into words why it would happen.

Sorry I’m not smarter, lol. Too many years of not using my brain cutting meat, lol.
 
Sorbate said:
First off I’m almost 50 so likely my body is converting more test into estrogen naturally.

Secondly it is my belief that when we make our test levels completely level (not fluctuating up and down like natural levels) more test gets converted into estrogen, because it’s always available to convert.
There is likely a cascade of things that need to happen for test to convert and it likely takes a certain amount of time, so natural high spikes of test may not allow the amount of time to convet a certain amount to estrogen.

I cannot explain it. I can understand the theory behind why this happens, but I cannot put into words why it would happen.

Sorry I’m not smarter, lol. Too many years of not using my brain cutting meat, lol.
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Thanks for the insight man, appreciate. Trying to learn as much as possible.
 
Sorbate said:
First off I’m almost 50 so likely my body is converting more test into estrogen naturally.

Secondly it is my belief that when we make our test levels completely level (not fluctuating up and down like natural levels) more test gets converted into estrogen, because it’s always available to convert.
There is likely a cascade of things that need to happen for test to convert and it likely takes a certain amount of time, so natural high spikes of test may not allow the amount of time to convet a certain amount to estrogen.

I cannot explain it. I can understand the theory behind why this happens, but I cannot put into words why it would happen.

Sorry I’m not smarter, lol. Too many years of not using my brain cutting meat, lol.
Click to expand...

I definitely convert more now that I am older. Don’t know why, just do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
flexappeal said:
Lots of guys on TRT require an AI to keep estrogen in check.
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Like I stated above, likely the steady test levels, likely why out hemocrit levels increase as well, but don't if you are natural. Even if you are trying to be within real hrt doses.

Off topic, but I bet if you used test base, multiple times a day, or prop eod you would likely find your estrogen or hemocrit wouldn't raise in the same way.
 
Sorbate said:
Like I stated above, likely the steady test levels, likely why out hemocrit levels increase as well, but don't if you are natural. Even if you are trying to be within real hrt doses.

Off topic, but I bet if you used test base, multiple times a day, or prop eod you would likely find your estrogen or hemocrit wouldn't raise in the same way.
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Interesting thought... to support your theory Stan Efferding says he uses Test Prop M/W/F for his TRT (300mg week LOL TRT) because he finds his E2 is lower with prop and he just feels better.

Once i finish the little experiment i just started...i plan to use my script Test C at 100mg per week (twice per week) but put 50-100mg test prop (3 times per week) on top of it. It will be comparing how i feel with test C vs test C and prop. @gondar1 not sure this would qualify as doubling down, using two esters of test. What intrigues me here is that common theory would suggest that the spikes due to prop would create higher conversion to E2, etc but you and Stan hypothesize the opposite. Well i will get bloods along the way and we will know for sure. I was going to do it to test mood, energy, etc but now i have another E2 experiment as well.

One other note, i like feeling stable day to day but if i am stable for too many weeks i don't feel as good as when i change things up every 8 - 12 weeks. Even if its little tiny change like going from 90mg week to 110mg per week (no ai)...it just enough to get the hormones moving around and create a positive effect.
 
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