High dose primo worth the $ vs alternatives like EQ/deca?

Oldguyjiujitsu said:
There are a bunch...i will try to dig one up...@gondar1 or @Bagua might have one.
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Damn. I’ll need to look. I wonder if it’s dose dependant or because we push so hard on deca we overexert our hearts?

I just took a quick scan, but damn they were giving the rats 10 mg/kg 3 times a week. So at my body weight I would need to take an excess of 2100 mg. 2.1 grams of deca alone. My cock would be fucked for life, but who would care id have tits to play with. No shit it caused damage, lol.

Then in another study they used 1mg per 100 grams of bodyweigh. So still at my body weight around 900 mg a week. That’s still a fair bit and they only showed oxidative stress, and created a coralation .

I think I won’t worry too much taking 160 mg a week.
 
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I hate eq it spike my bp and I can’t sleep. Primo I’d great I’ve run it at 400mg for 20 weeks and 600mg for 20weeks... the only difference I noticed was 600mg a week costs more. I haven’t run it in years but if I cam across a good source I’d run 400mg along with my trt dose for 20weeks.
 
Sorbate said:
Damn. I’ll need to look. I wonder if it’s dose dependant or because we push so hard on deca we overexert our hearts?

I just took a quick scan, but damn they were giving the rats 10 mg/kg 3 times a week. So at my body weight I would need to take an excess of 2100 mg. 2.1 grams of deca alone. My cock would be fucked for life, but who would care id have tits to play with. No shit it caused damage, lol.

Then in another study they used 1mg per 100 grams of bodyweigh. So still at my body weight around 900 mg a week. That’s still a fair bit and they only showed oxidative stress, and created a coralation .

I think I won’t worry too much taking 160 mg a week.
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200 and under is likely fine. I will find one study I remember as it was pretty legit. But remember US will prescribe 50 to 100 mg per week so If the risk is excessive that those dosages FDA would not have been approved


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Sorbate said:
Damn. I’ll need to look. I wonder if it’s dose dependant or because we push so hard on deca we overexert our hearts?

I just took a quick scan, but damn they were giving the rats 10 mg/kg 3 times a week. So at my body weight I would need to take an excess of 2100 mg. 2.1 grams of deca alone. My cock would be fucked for life, but who would care id have tits to play with. No shit it caused damage, lol.

Then in another study they used 1mg per 100 grams of bodyweigh. So still at my body weight around 900 mg a week. That’s still a fair bit and they only showed oxidative stress, and created a coralation .

I think I won’t worry too much taking 160 mg a week.
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There are a few good studies stating this...however. I wonder if it's because deca doesn't convert to estrogen and low estrogen itself is incredibly hard on the heart.

I'd be curious if deca plus taking straight estradiol to have ur estrogen in range would if the same negative heart affects.
 
Interesting read.

Let me be "that guy" Lol. I see Deca and EQ mentioned in here a fair amount too. How do you folks that have used Primo low or high, short term or long term, how is it on the hair? DHT based so I assume worse than EQ or Deca, but then again, I see lots of love for Primo, super safe (for an AAS) so maybe it's a bit of a unicorn in the hair area?

Thanks
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
200 and under is likely fine. I will find one study I remember as it was pretty legit. But remember US will prescribe 50 to 100 mg per week so If the risk is excessive that those dosages FDA would not have been approved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You can go higher JuJu. I am way behind on this aspect (renal failure) of Nandrolone use but this little ditty states there is interest in its use at a higher dose. I would have to dig into what they consider adequate erythropoietin and whether hemodialysis or peritoneal dialysis is involved. RA patients would have a different dose if it is still being prescribed.
It's been years since I have studied this. Sorry.

www.karger.com

Nandrolone Decanoate as Anabolic Therapy in Chronic Kidney Disease: A Randomized Phase II Dose-Finding Study

Abstract. Background/Aims: In patients with chronic kidney disease (CKD) receiving adequate erythropoietin therapy, the ideal dose of nandrolone decanoate (ND) to enhance muscle mass is not known. Methods: In this phase II dose-finding study, 54 patients with CKD stage 5 were randomized to...
www.karger.com www.karger.com
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nandrolone decanoate as anabolic therapy in chronic kidney disease: a randomized phase II dose-finding study - PubMed

If goals of future studies are to improve body composition, dosing of ND up to 200 mg/week in males and 50 mg/week in females should be investigated. However, to realize improvements in physical functioning, future phase III trials of ND may require additional interventions such as exercise...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Bagua said:
I never went above 600 mg of Primo a week and would run it for at least six months. Usually, with an equal amount of Test. I had to stop when I became a pauper and now settle for Mast.
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How do you find mast compares to primo?
 
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Thats it! I am doing a primo and test cycle for my next cycle! I assume primo binds to shbg well so it increases free test because it is a dht derivative?
 
Devson said:
Thats it! I am doing a primo and test cycle for my next cycle! I assume primo binds to shbg well so it increases free test because it is a dht derivative?
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I was just asking about this as well; it was said that primo gives a much more full , hard look, than compared to masteron which is more of a dry look. The AI benefits aren’t as prominent as masteron, but still slightly there. I’m definitely throwing some primo on my next order ... that’s for sure. Always been a masteron guy myself but from what I been told and hear it’s worth it to pay the bit more for primo
 
OTFJOEY said:
I was just asking about this as well; it was said that primo gives a much more full , hard look, than compared to masteron which is more of a dry look. The AI benefits aren’t as prominent as masteron, but still slightly there. I’m definitely throwing some primo on my next order ... that’s for sure. Always been a masteron guy myself but from what I been told and hear it’s worth it to pay the bit more for primo
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Primo mast and test together is ideal
 
Sorbate said:
Damn. I’ll need to look. I wonder if it’s dose dependant or because we push so hard on deca we overexert our hearts?

I just took a quick scan, but damn they were giving the rats 10 mg/kg 3 times a week. So at my body weight I would need to take an excess of 2100 mg. 2.1 grams of deca alone. My cock would be fucked for life, but who would care id have tits to play with. No shit it caused damage, lol.

Then in another study they used 1mg per 100 grams of bodyweigh. So still at my body weight around 900 mg a week. That’s still a fair bit and they only showed oxidative stress, and created a coralation .

I think I won’t worry too much taking 160 mg a week.
Click to expand...
Hey Sorb and y'all I'm late to the party,

you might need a big asterisk by that statement depending on the exact wording whatever study you are referring to used.

The point I am about to try to make here frustrates the fuck out of me because I can never remember the right terms and will have to look it up so bear wit me .

Basically it depends on if they used words that describe it as 'human equivalent' or something like that. Their is a conversion factor to be considered between different animals. You cannot simply multiply the dose by the ratio of bodyweights.

If anybody knows wtf I'm talking about or even just what it's called please post up, I'll probably look into it after I lift otherwise I won't be able to get to sleep tonite.

And yeah, if this particular case is straight up the way you described it that would be a hefty dose

EDIT- YAY I remembered before I walked out the door ! Relevant terms are Allometric Scaling and Human Equivalency Dose or HED

It very roughly goes like this - Animal dose in mg/kg x (Animal conversion factor/Human Conversion Factor) = HED

Those conversion factors are subject to bodyweight a rat could be "10" and a human could be "50" just a guess at this point but hopefully not too far off. So assuming that those numbers are anywhere in the ballpark 10 x 10/50 = 2mg/kg HED.

EDIT OF EDIT - I had to look deeper, more realistic numbers for a guy of around 100kg - 10 x 5/50 = 1mg/kg HED

Gotta go now, these rear delts aren't going to pump themselves !
 
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gondar1 said:
Hey Sorb and y'all I'm late to the party,

you might need a big asterisk by that statement depending on the exact wording whatever study you are referring to used.

The point I am about to try to make here frustrates the fuck out of me because I can never remember the right terms and will have to look it up so bear wit me .

Basically it depends on if they used words that describe it as 'human equivalent' or something like that. Their is a conversion factor to be considered between different animals. You cannot simply multiply the dose by the ratio of bodyweights.

If anybody knows wtf I'm talking about or even just what it's called please post up, I'll probably look into it after I lift otherwise I won't be able to get to sleep tonite.

And yeah, if this particular case is straight up the way you described it that would be a hefty dose

EDIT- YAY I remembered before I walked out the door ! Relevant terms are Allometric Scaling and Human Equivalency Dose or HED

It very roughly goes like this - Animal dose in mg/kg x (Animal conversion factor/Human Conversion Factor) = HED

Those conversion factors are subject to bodyweight a rat could be "10" and a human could be "50" just a guess at this point but hopefully not too far off. So assuming that those numbers are anywhere in the ballpark 10 x 10/50 = 2mg/kg HED.

EDIT OF EDIT - I had to look deeper, more realistic numbers for a guy of around 100kg - 10 x 5/50 = 1mg/kg HED

Gotta go now, these rear delts aren't going to pump themselves !
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It didn’t state anything about human equivalent in either study. Just the dose they used.
I just googled ‘does deca harm the heart’
and the first two studies that popped up.
 
backintime said:
Interesting read.

Let me be "that guy" Lol. I see Deca and EQ mentioned in here a fair amount too. How do you folks that have used Primo low or high, short term or long term, how is it on the hair? DHT based so I assume worse than EQ or Deca, but then again, I see lots of love for Primo, super safe (for an AAS) so maybe it's a bit of a unicorn in the hair area?

Thanks
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Don’t run gear if you are worried about your hair. Everything if you are predespostitoned will maje is shed. After 10 years won’t matter what you run.
 
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