Dose for Low Responder?

S

SeeMac

Member
Trusted Member
Hey everyone. A few months back I was prescribed TRT at 200mg/2 weeks (seems to be the default), but my GP had no problem with me splitting the dose up. I have been injecting 28mg EOD, for a total just under 100mg/week.

I recently had my blood work, and surprisingly I came back with a total testosterone of 15.3 nmol/L / 440 ng/dl (down from 16.8 pre TRT), with a free T of 455 pmol/L (up from 380 pre TRT). This puts me at a response multiplier of about 4.4, which seems to be pretty low.

What dose would you all recommend I ask to be increased to? I would like to be in the range of at least 22+ nmol/L, or however high it takes me to feel many of my symptoms be resolved. I am considering asking for an increase to 150-175 mg per week, which according to my dose response multiplier should put me where I’d like.
 
SeeMac said:
Hey everyone. A few months back I was prescribed TRT at 200mg/2 weeks (seems to be the default), but my GP had no problem with me splitting the dose up. I have been injecting 28mg EOD, for a total just under 100mg/week.

I recently had my blood work, and surprisingly I came back with a total testosterone of 15.3 nmol/L / 440 ng/dl (down from 16.8 pre TRT), with a free T of 455 pmol/L (up from 380 pre TRT). This puts me at a response multiplier of about 4.4, which seems to be pretty low.

What dose would you all recommend I ask to be increased to? I would like to be in the range of at least 22+ nmol/L, or however high it takes me to feel many of my symptoms be resolved. I am considering asking for an increase to 150-175 mg per week, which according to my dose response multiplier should put me where I’d like.
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Yeah try that first.
And why Eod? Twice or even once a week is just fine.
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
What was your E2? First you must assess how much you aromatize. How was the rest of your BW?


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What was your E2? First you must assess how much you aromatize. How was the rest of your BW?
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
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Oldguyjiujitsu said:
What was your E2? First you must assess how much you aromatize. How was the rest of your BW?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I haven’t had e2 tested, as my GP doesn’t seem to think it is necessary. I haven’t had any high e2 symptoms yet.

Rest of my BW was good. Lipids/cholesterol/HTC all good.
 
SeeMac said:
More stable blood levels. Lots of anecdotal evidence saying people feel better on EOD or ED pinning. It takes like 2 minutes so it doesn’t bother me.
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Been taking gear 7 years. Really not that much difference. I’ve done it every way.
Right now I’m actually once a week. You know sometimes getting a peek and trough feels good.
How do you know you are feeling great if you never feel normal?

But run it how you want, but don’t be afraid to try different things just for fun.
 
SeeMac said:
Hey everyone. A few months back I was prescribed TRT at 200mg/2 weeks (seems to be the default), but my GP had no problem with me splitting the dose up. I have been injecting 28mg EOD, for a total just under 100mg/week.

I recently had my blood work, and surprisingly I came back with a total testosterone of 15.3 nmol/L / 440 ng/dl (down from 16.8 pre TRT), with a free T of 455 pmol/L (up from 380 pre TRT). This puts me at a response multiplier of about 4.4, which seems to be pretty low.

What dose would you all recommend I ask to be increased to? I would like to be in the range of at least 22+ nmol/L, or however high it takes me to feel many of my symptoms be resolved. I am considering asking for an increase to 150-175 mg per week, which according to my dose response multiplier should put me where I’d like.
Click to expand...
I’d bump it up to maybe 120-130 a week.

100 a week had my total in the high teens.
120 a week had my total in the low 20’s
130 a week had my total in the mid 20’s
 
I
Sorbate said:
Been taking gear 7 years. Really not that much difference. I’ve done it every way.
Right now I’m actually once a week. You know sometimes getting a peek and trough feels good.
How do you know you are feeling great if you never feel normal?

But run it how you want, but don’t be afraid to try different things just for fun
Click to expand...

I’m not opposed to pinning less often, but for now it doesn’t bother me at all.
 
SeeMac said:
What was your E2? First you must assess how much you aromatize. How was the rest of your BW?


I haven’t had e2 tested, as my GP doesn’t seem to think it is necessary. I haven’t had any high e2 symptoms yet.

Rest of my BW was good. Lipids/cholesterol/HTC all good.
Click to expand...
You should know your E2 number. The GP might say that it not very accurate but after being on TRT for over a decade i can tell you it tells a ton of the story. Just because you don't have high E2 symptoms does not mean its not high for you. Its all relative and you can't use E2 symptoms such as when on cycle as the guide.

Give you an example....My free test on 100mg per week is typically around 550. If i take just .25 adex (just a quarter of one tiny pill) every 10 days it shoots up to 750ish due to conversion but i feel kinda shitty from the lower E2. In both cases (100mg alone or 100mg plus adex) my E2 is in the Normal Range. One is low normal and the other is mid to higher normal. PS i feel better without the adex. third scenario with the same dosage of test...If i take 100mg of DIM per day with the 100mg of test i feel best and my free test sits around 600.

Chacing a specific Test number is rarely the answer on TRT. If the goal is gain muscle then yes but long term wellness no. Having full data is tedious but you will be happy to have the knowledge if something starts to go wrong.

I guess the main question is how do you fell? If you feel good ignore the number. If not get more data. I feel the best on 140mg per week. But its not sustainable in the long term....some of by BW markers start to creep out of range.
 
Th
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
You should know your E2 number. The GP might say that it not very accurate but after being on TRT for over a decade i can tell you it tells a ton of the story. Just because you don't have high E2 symptoms does not mean its not high for you. Its all relative and you can't use E2 symptoms such as when on cycle as the guide.

Give you an example....My free test on 100mg per week is typically around 550. If i take just .25 adex (just a quarter of one tiny pill) every 10 days it shoots up to 750ish due to conversion but i feel kinda shitty from the lower E2. In both cases (100mg alone or 100mg plus adex) my E2 is in the Normal Range. One is low normal and the other is mid to higher normal. PS i feel better without the adex. third scenario with the same dosage of test...If i take 100mg of DIM per day with the 100mg of test i feel best and my free test sits around 600.

Chacing a specific Test number is rarely the answer on TRT. If the goal is gain muscle then yes but long term wellness no. Having full data is tedious but you will be happy to have the knowledge if something starts to go wrong.

I guess the main question is how do you fell? If you feel good ignore the number. If not get more data. I feel the best on 140mg per week. But its not sustainable in the long term....some of by BW markers start to creep out of range.
Click to expand...
This is a good point, and I will try to get e2 tested on my future tests. Not sure if the lab I use offers LC/MS e2 testing, but hopefully they do.
My GP and I are on the same page about treating symptoms and not numbers. I was planning on increasing the dose anyways because my symptoms have not resolved yet, which is not surprising considering my TT has actually decreased since starting treatment.
 
seems like you've figured out your answer already. I would just go to him with your math and request a boost to 175 as you suggested. Whatever you give him he's going to argue it down, if boost you at all.

good luck
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
You should know your E2 number. The GP might say that it not very accurate but after being on TRT for over a decade i can tell you it tells a ton of the story. Just because you don't have high E2 symptoms does not mean its not high for you. Its all relative and you can't use E2 symptoms such as when on cycle as the guide.

Give you an example....My free test on 100mg per week is typically around 550. If i take just .25 adex (just a quarter of one tiny pill) every 10 days it shoots up to 750ish due to conversion but i feel kinda shitty from the lower E2. In both cases (100mg alone or 100mg plus adex) my E2 is in the Normal Range. One is low normal and the other is mid to higher normal. PS i feel better without the adex. third scenario with the same dosage of test...If i take 100mg of DIM per day with the 100mg of test i feel best and my free test sits around 600.

Chacing a specific Test number is rarely the answer on TRT. If the goal is gain muscle then yes but long term wellness no. Having full data is tedious but you will be happy to have the knowledge if something starts to go wrong.

I guess the main question is how do you fell? If you feel good ignore the number. If not get more data. I feel the best on 140mg per week. But its not sustainable in the long term....some of by BW markers start to creep out of range.
Click to expand...
I’m in the same boat as OP, my gp won’t test for E2 or prolactin. I’ve had it tested once in 4 years of trt because I made up symptoms of high e2/prolactin. Both came within range and that was the end of that. And it’s brutal we can’t get private testing in Canada, makes it impossible for testing during blasts.
 
Sorbate said:
Been taking gear 7 years. Really not that much difference. I’ve done it every way.
Right now I’m actually once a week. You know sometimes getting a peek and trough feels good.
How do you know you are feeling great if you never feel normal?

But run it how you want, but don’t be afraid to try different things just for fun.
Click to expand...
More frequent pinning can often result in not needing an AI.
 
Gallows said:
I’m in the same boat as OP, my gp won’t test for E2 or prolactin. I’ve had it tested once in 4 years of trt because I made up symptoms of high e2/prolactin. Both came within range and that was the end of that. And it’s brutal we can’t get private testing in Canada, makes it impossible for testing during blasts.
Click to expand...

GPs can be frustrating. Mine will test it just to humour me.

The best option is always a good TRT clinic. Mine willing to discuss anything and if I can provide data will issue the BW script. You get what you pay for.

Not sure where you live but here in Alberta there are tons of good private clinics


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Oldguyjiujitsu said:
GPs can be frustrating. Mine will test it just to humour me.

The best option is always a good TRT clinic. Mine willing to discuss anything and if I can provide data will issue the BW script. You get what you pay for.

Not sure where you live but here in Alberta there are tons of good private clinics


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My GP is great I honestly can’t complain. He prescribed me TRT at age 24 when my TT was double the lower end of the reference range with no issue at all. I’m sure if I asked for e2 to be tested he wouldn’t have a problem with it.

I am located in Ontario, and am holding off on going the private route until I have an issue with my GP. So far so good.
 
Oldguyjiujitsu said:
GPs can be frustrating. Mine will test it just to humour me.

The best option is always a good TRT clinic. Mine willing to discuss anything and if I can provide data will issue the BW script. You get what you pay for.

Not sure where you live but here in Alberta there are tons of good private clinics


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Click to expand...
I’m in Sask and there are 0. My friend looked into out of province clinics which charge an arm and a leg. And still require a signature from a local GP to process the blood work requisition
 
140-175 depending on your blood work and age. I'm early 30s at 175mg scripted and feel amazing, all BW has been perfect. Original script was 225mg per week by a usa sports doc, but my Canadian Endo will only prescribe up to 175 max, still a nice bump up from his original standard 100mg per week.

Depending where you live, your goals, and your bodies absorbation rate, trt has a wide range from 75mg-300mg a week I've seen prescribed. There are doctors out there who specifically specialize in advanced sports athletes and cater to their needs, as we are a different caliber of breed in comparison to your regular Jon doh needing a basic replacement.
 
libo said:
140-175 depending on your blood work and age. I'm early 30s at 175mg scripted and feel amazing, all BW has been perfect. Original script was 225mg per week by a usa sports doc, but my Canadian Endo will only prescribe up to 175 max, still a nice bump up from his original standard 100mg per week.

Depending where you live, your goals, and your bodies absorbation rate, trt has a wide range from 75mg-300mg a week I've seen prescribed. There are doctors out there who specifically specialize in advanced sports athletes and cater to their needs, as we are a different caliber of breed in comparison to your regular Jon doh needing a basic replacement
Click to expand...
libo said:
140-175 depending on your blood work and age. I'm early 30s at 175mg scripted and feel amazing, all BW has been perfect. Original script was 225mg per week by a usa sports doc, but my Canadian Endo will only prescribe up to 175 max, still a nice bump up from his original standard 100mg per week.

Depending where you live, your goals, and your bodies absorbation rate, trt has a wide range from 75mg-300mg a week I've seen prescribed. There are doctors out there who specifically specialize in advanced sports athletes and cater to their needs, as we are a different caliber of breed in comparison to your regular Jon doh needing a basic replacement.
Click to expand...
Probably going to ask for somewhere between 150 and 175. Not looking to get supraphysiological, just to get my TT towards the upper end of the range and feel better.
 
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