Cool man did you do blood work to see if you were deficient in anything?
Anyone vegan or vegitarian?
- Thread starter Bigbear
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Cool man good points.
I find that us and animals aren't that much different, we all have the same survival and reproduction traits hard wired into us we are just a lot more advanced. When I see how connected to me my dog is she's really like a busy friend of mine with so much personality and I think this is the beast that we are so different from? She's moral loving and loyal and has more character then a lot of people I know lol. But yea I like meat I just didn't know if any of you had any good points on the argument. Definitely livestock farmers and animal lovers are a little biased. I'm an animal lover so that's my conflict of interest. I think all these new diets are a little fucked definitely healthy balances of everything is what works but if there was a way to be healthy or stronger and not need to kill animals for it I'd give it a shot. I also know lots of you guys are farmers so you know and are used to it by now but for anyone who's never killed anything its not very fun. My theory is if I can eat the meat I have to be able to kill it or I'm just weak. I've farmed before and still know guys who do some of them are so close to their livestock that when it's slaughtered and shipped off they won't even eat it they go to wallmart instead. They can't handle eating cows that they bottle fed as a calf
Association of Protein Intake With Mortality
This cohort study assesses the associations of animal and plant protein intake with the risk for mortality in 2 populations of US adults.
jamanetwork.com
Association of Protein Intake With Mortality
This cohort study assesses the associations of animal and plant protein intake with the risk for mortality in 2 populations of US adults.
I've been wanting to say this for a bit so might as well slide it in here - Thanks for your contribution to the board since you joined. You have raised some great questions and topics since you got here and driven thoughtful conversation.
You've asked for the members thoughts and opinions on this subject, I'm interested in yours too and also how you arrive at them.
If you had to give a very brief summation of this article what would that look like? No pressure, you are more than welcome to keep your thoughts to yourself as you don't owe anyone anything.
Secondary question that you might ask yourself - If asked to take an opposing view to the first answer in a polite debate what would that consist of?
Cheers Sir.
How do you get all the protein you need to build muscle being on a Vegan diet? Doesn't sound comfortable to me.
Yep industrial farming destroys massive tracts of natural habitat. Which animals I eat, graze on lol.
To put it in as quick of terms as possible I think the just of it describes a couple year long study by medical professions and 100 000 plus test subjects. They were given animal protein and plant protein now I didn't memorize this for an essay or anything so a few of my points may be off but results showed people on plant based protein had a lower cardiovascular mortality rate then those on animal protein which I think was red meat. Don't quote me though that's why I sent the link but what I liked was the entire study was explained in every detail so any reader can know the majority of what factors were taken into consideration. I also noticed it was published in some sort of medical journal by a long list of authors with various degrees, masters, doctorates etc. All of which would be registered and available for the public to reference for credibility. Lastly I do have adhd, I'm very impulsive and I'm known for being a scatter brain so if your point is to discredit my opinions I hope you don't take them got anything more then they are. Just friendly thoughts opinions and general inquiries. I dont mean to insult any meat loving lifers as I may never become a vegan or vegetarian myself.
Now to take the other side of the debate I would look further into it if possible and see who funded it, where the authors and scientists are employed and even fact check it in the specific medical journal they claim to be published in. I haven't of course because I just wanted to find anything for you that wasn't Peta or anti meat related. I guess also they were just questionnaires and not full medical analysis so some info could be altered there too
The quality of the meat largely depends on the quality of diet / life the animal had. There's a huge difference between a deer that's been grazing on flowers and shrubs in a natural environment, and a grain fed chicken pumped with garbage living in a cage.
I have no idea but I only use vegan protein powder also ...
10 High-Protein Vegetables
Looking for plant-based ways to add more protein to your diet? Check out our list of the top 10 protein-packed vegetables ranked highest to lowest.
I dont know but maybe ground up these vegetables could be packed into some huge protein yielding dish. That's another reason I asked this here, if anyone was off meat and into body building they could let me know what the heck it is they're doing. My trt doc is a vegetarian. He brought this up while discussion dietary options in relation to my cholesterol and insulin resistence but for recipes he said just Google it. I have another sports nutritionist but don't want to pay the insane prices for meal plans until I figure out what I actually want to eat
That's also what had me curious because grass fed meat helps with gluten intolerance and other gut related issues( don't get me started on pork and gut problems) but what the animals eat is huge in how their meat turns out. I just want to look more into the claim that all the amino acides we get from meat are second hand and only actually from what the animal eats. If that were true you would be getting it first hand and skipping all the meat related issues, saturated fat, stomach disease, colorectal cancer etc...(https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/red-meat-and-colon-cancer)
Also inflammation which could lead to anything from auto immune diseases to Parkinsons and other brain inflammation diseases
I have no idea but I only use vegan protein powder also ...
10 High-Protein Vegetables
Looking for plant-based ways to add more protein to your diet? Check out our list of the top 10 protein-packed vegetables ranked highest to lowest.www.eatingwell.com
I dont know but maybe ground up these vegetables could be packed into some huge protein yielding dish. That's another reason I asked this here, if anyone was off meat and into body building they could let me know what the heck it is they're doing. My trt doc is a vegetarian. He brought this up while discussion dietary options in relation to my cholesterol and insulin resistence but for recipes he said just Google it. I have another sports nutritionist but don't want to pay the insane prices for meal plans until I figure out what I actually want to eat
I do think if you're trying to optimize muscle growth, the sheer volume of vegetables you would need to digest to meet protein requirements would prove to be very difficult, and probably real expensive. Probably making it much harder to also shovel down all the carbs you need as well.
Maybe easier said than done, at least for any extended period of time.
Yes or you would need to pay big bucks for cooks and dietary aids.
Yeah especially pork that comes from the states, not necessarily great for you lol. There's some shit they feed them, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head, but it's banned in a ton of different countries...
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/styl...odybuilders-show-you-you-can-still-beef-plant
@Brbpuppy
I also had a friend who weighed 230 or 240 or so could easily bench press 350 or 400lbs which isn't insane but he was a regular Joe who switched to vegan and liked it
@Brbpuppy
I also had a friend who weighed 230 or 240 or so could easily bench press 350 or 400lbs which isn't insane but he was a regular Joe who switched to vegan and liked it
Please rest assured my intention is not to discredit your opinion. No offense intended and not an attack. Trynna see it from all sides is all. I recognized the reasons for putting up this particular piece and was interested in how you digested it and how that reflected on my previous posts in this thread and others in the last few days. Of course I'm sure that we can both see my inherent bias, frankly it seems you have more of an open mind about this than I do as I'm definitely pro-protein.
I thought this might be a good oppourtunity to demonstrate how the very same words can elicit different interpretations. This is due partly to authors taking some leaps to conclusions that are not supported by their own data and also our short attention span as readers who may scan quickly and gloss over some of the seemingly smaller but extremely powerful words and points that depending on if noted or not make a material change to the conclusions to be drawn.
Nothing wrong with your summation, that's what you took from it. I will write an alternate viewpoint to illustrate my points above for your consideration at the close. First their is a point I must raise about the validity of such articles.
There are a few things that concern me here (discussed in other threads/posts) but the one that jumps out before any of the others is the method of data collection. Fuller details are to be found in the first 2 paragraphs under the Methods headings so pardon my brevity but I will quote - "Briefly, follow-up questionnaires were administered at baseline enrollment and every 2 years thereafter to collect lifestyle and medical information. Dietary intake was assessed by the food frequency questionnaires (FFQs) every 4 years."
Self reporting is subject to troubles in any case, subjects may be intentionally or unintentionally dishonest for a variety of reasons. Some might not include their nightly bag of doritos and a six pack due to shame or some might over or under emphasize certain things they are proud of like a bacon lover or a (claimed) strict V person who actually breaks protocol once a week.
Adding to that - "In each FFQ, participants were asked how often, on average, they consumed a standardized portion size of each food during the previous year." How accurately do you think that could be done? How well would each of us here do over a year? A seemingly insignificant miss here becomes exponentially (?) magnified over years and millions of data point until it may become very statistically significant.
But let's put that all aside for now, we'll assume it's all perfectly accurate for the sake of this discussion.
Would you be able to consider the following very simple summation as valid as yours? A fair and honest headline in some health related mag or a newspaper?
Association of health risks with regard to animal vs plant protein consumption should not be a concern for people who live a healthy lifestyle.
From the article:
"Conclusions
Although higher intake of animal protein was associated with higher cardiovascular mortality and higher intake of plant protein was associated with lower mortality, these associations were confined to participants with at least 1 lifestyle risk factor. ..."
EDITTED- OOOPS in the summation, missed a few words
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They pumps most of the pork From the us. Also most pork is given a shot banned in most countries to lean them out. Where I buy pork doesn’t but all the pork in the grocery store does. It’s supposed to be harmful to human.
Chickens in canada are not allowed to live in cages, its illegal.
There is also tight controls over what they are allowed to be fed.
But yeah its mass production, but not as much of a difference as you would imagine.
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Please remember when everyone screams grass fed beef is better, all cows eat grass in the field until the last few weeks where they are grain fed to clean up the wild taste and get the right marbling. WHere grass fed is supposedly healthier is because its leaner. Some nutrients are a tiny bit higher, but by micrograms and the amount of meat you would have to eat to achieve a beneficial level would be out of reach so really there would be no difference between the two, CLA is one of these nutrients. But are they really, who is peer reviewing the tests to make sure?
If you got really lean grain fed beef then the profiles would likely be pretty much the same. Its tough to believe any of the nutritionals you see online because really no one actually tests them to see if they are accurate. I know this because I produce nutritional labels at work, not once have i been told to verify if they are accurate, its a trust game. In other words I sign a statement saying they are accurate, the government is off the hook and everything is great, lol.
I believe a balanced diet is the best.
If you got really lean grain fed beef then the profiles would likely be pretty much the same. Its tough to believe any of the nutritionals you see online because really no one actually tests them to see if they are accurate. I know this because I produce nutritional labels at work, not once have i been told to verify if they are accurate, its a trust game. In other words I sign a statement saying they are accurate, the government is off the hook and everything is great, lol.
I believe a balanced diet is the best.
I have a relative who is a pig farmer. He says they're the dirtiest creatures in modern food as they cannibalize and even eat there own shit. Have the time his didn't have tails because they'd chew them off each other. He'd have to remove a carcuss quickly or they would just eat it. I dont know the breed of pig but they were sold for meat.
Yeah pigs will eat the tires off you trailers and tractors.
‘When I was visiting my uncle a few years back he had to shoot one pig because another had eaten it’s ass out while it slept and it prolapsed.
‘But I will overlook that because bacon is soo good.